We are trying to move our son on from Yellow to Orange but it is proving difficult. We are in a small club with no coaching. We (the parents) are self-taught (not very well!), also never having had any coaching.
We have tried walking round an Orange course and talking him through it but when he tries on his own he struggles and gets demoralised. Basically we haven't the foggiest how to teach him as we don't have the experience.
Does anyone have any ideas/techniques as to how to get him back on track?
He has shown great promise at Yellow level with podium places at the Scottish and Welsh 6 Days so it would be a shame if he gives up now.
Moving on from Yellow to Orange
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
Basically, in Orange, he will need to start moving off paths etc for short distances, and getting to a control or line feature across terrain. So, he will need to be able to identify and use 'attack points', and start using a compass for direction.
So, first thing I would do is when you go out with him, get him to explain his plan at the start of each leg. Basic principle: he must have a plan for EVERY leg.
I use the acronym CASH:
Control: what's the control feature?
Attack: what's the attack point?
Stopper: what's going to stop him going too far?
Handrail: what handrails is he going to use (he should have one the WHOLE way - either a line feature or a compass direction).
An attack point is a large feature close to the control that is relatively easy to get to, and gives a good line into the control. (Don't use features that are less or as equally easy to find as the control - not much point!).
So - what is the control on, then what is a good attack point, then what's going to stop him going too far and overshooting, then what handrails is he going to use both to the attack point and then in. I do that for every control, even if one of those is very easy.
Then work on executing the plan. Get him to tell you, rather than you telling him how to do it. At first, perhaps correct plan if not quite right, but later let him execute and then learn from mistakes. It will involve a fair bit of shadowing for a while - when our son transferred from yellow to orange, we went back to shadowing for quite a while, probably more than any other colour upgrade (each colour upgrade except the last involved some shadowing).
He will have, on occasions, to leave those line feature handrails. He must then have a compass handrail. That can be simply a direction on the ground identified from setting the map accurately, but gradually working towards being able to take a compass bearing. He will either be cutting across to another line feature (thus may get away with a direction), or approaching a control on a point, in which case may need to start being accurate soon. Aiming off was a useful skill learned at this stage.
I work on the principle of using compass bearings as safety backups, and move towards getting them to take one for each control (and learn to take one quickly!) - I still do that myself.
He won't execute plans right all the time (far from it!), but getting into the routine of having one will give him a framework for getting things right, and learning where things went wrong when they do.
Also - work on the positives. When he does get it right, highlight it. See if can work towards getting most right (e.g. 6 controls out of 11), and then improving the score. If just makes one big mistake, but gets rest 'right', then that's a great score! Times will come later - it's about reducing mistakes and increasing positives.
Hope that helps!
So, first thing I would do is when you go out with him, get him to explain his plan at the start of each leg. Basic principle: he must have a plan for EVERY leg.
I use the acronym CASH:
Control: what's the control feature?
Attack: what's the attack point?
Stopper: what's going to stop him going too far?
Handrail: what handrails is he going to use (he should have one the WHOLE way - either a line feature or a compass direction).
An attack point is a large feature close to the control that is relatively easy to get to, and gives a good line into the control. (Don't use features that are less or as equally easy to find as the control - not much point!).
So - what is the control on, then what is a good attack point, then what's going to stop him going too far and overshooting, then what handrails is he going to use both to the attack point and then in. I do that for every control, even if one of those is very easy.
Then work on executing the plan. Get him to tell you, rather than you telling him how to do it. At first, perhaps correct plan if not quite right, but later let him execute and then learn from mistakes. It will involve a fair bit of shadowing for a while - when our son transferred from yellow to orange, we went back to shadowing for quite a while, probably more than any other colour upgrade (each colour upgrade except the last involved some shadowing).
He will have, on occasions, to leave those line feature handrails. He must then have a compass handrail. That can be simply a direction on the ground identified from setting the map accurately, but gradually working towards being able to take a compass bearing. He will either be cutting across to another line feature (thus may get away with a direction), or approaching a control on a point, in which case may need to start being accurate soon. Aiming off was a useful skill learned at this stage.
I work on the principle of using compass bearings as safety backups, and move towards getting them to take one for each control (and learn to take one quickly!) - I still do that myself.
He won't execute plans right all the time (far from it!), but getting into the routine of having one will give him a framework for getting things right, and learning where things went wrong when they do.
Also - work on the positives. When he does get it right, highlight it. See if can work towards getting most right (e.g. 6 controls out of 11), and then improving the score. If just makes one big mistake, but gets rest 'right', then that's a great score! Times will come later - it's about reducing mistakes and increasing positives.
Hope that helps!
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awk - god
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
That's a great post AWK, I must cut and paste it into my coaching notes.
A couple of things you might find useful to help practice AWK's ideas
- If you speak nicely to registration or email the organiser, they might let you do a few of the orange course controls with your son as practice after your son runs yellow (and not appear in the results). One of the problems cross country orienteering has is that it has no mercy for mistakes, if you miss one or mispunch you are often listed as DSQ which is obviously demoralising.
- Is there a good permanent course in an easyish area near you? Perhaps a country park or large town park? Thinking back a long way to when I was a child, it really helped doing the permanent course at Hampstead Heath, finding a few controls each day at walking speed for a few weeks with no competition pressure. Some permanent courses in harder areas often have an orange course identified which would do the same job.
A couple of things you might find useful to help practice AWK's ideas
- If you speak nicely to registration or email the organiser, they might let you do a few of the orange course controls with your son as practice after your son runs yellow (and not appear in the results). One of the problems cross country orienteering has is that it has no mercy for mistakes, if you miss one or mispunch you are often listed as DSQ which is obviously demoralising.
- Is there a good permanent course in an easyish area near you? Perhaps a country park or large town park? Thinking back a long way to when I was a child, it really helped doing the permanent course at Hampstead Heath, finding a few controls each day at walking speed for a few weeks with no competition pressure. Some permanent courses in harder areas often have an orange course identified which would do the same job.
- SeanC
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
HarryO - have you considered doing a coaching course? It sounds like it could be a great benefit to you and to your club, there are several pots of money around to help out and the Level 1 courses are now pretty frequent across the country - I'd recommend doing one!
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distracted - addict
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
HarryO,
I've not been coaching long and I can't match Awk's excellent advice, but one thing I found that worked during a session I ran recently was this:
I paired people up with one map between them. Whoever had the map had to talk the other person on to the control. If your son was doing this you could occasionally chip in with things like "oh I can see a path over there - is that on the map?" or "there's a big hill over to the right - do we go anywhere near it". Try other questions like "how far do you think we have to go in this direction?(an adult version of "are we nearly there yet dad" That might help and encourage him to relate those to the map as you go.
It seemed to work well for a couple of our juniors who were paired with adults. Admittedly they were progressing from orange to light green but it wouldn't harm to try.
I've not been coaching long and I can't match Awk's excellent advice, but one thing I found that worked during a session I ran recently was this:
I paired people up with one map between them. Whoever had the map had to talk the other person on to the control. If your son was doing this you could occasionally chip in with things like "oh I can see a path over there - is that on the map?" or "there's a big hill over to the right - do we go anywhere near it". Try other questions like "how far do you think we have to go in this direction?(an adult version of "are we nearly there yet dad" That might help and encourage him to relate those to the map as you go.
It seemed to work well for a couple of our juniors who were paired with adults. Admittedly they were progressing from orange to light green but it wouldn't harm to try.
- Sunlit Forres
- diehard
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
Thanks everyone. I took my son out on his first Orange at the weekend. We followed the CASH approach suggested by awk for each control and had a successful time on the whole.
I recon after a few more sessions like this over the summer and he'll be ready to go it alone in the autumn.
Thanks again.
I recon after a few more sessions like this over the summer and he'll be ready to go it alone in the autumn.
Thanks again.
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HarryO - orange
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
What a brilliant thread. The power of an internet forum to pool ideas.
I have been hooked on Routegadget for some time now. But this weekend, I've just discovered how good it is for coaching children. My son is ready to move on to yellow, but lacks a bit of confidence. So in the comfort of our lounge, we're able to plot his route on white, discussing it as we go, then have a look at yellow and compare the differences between the two. We even got as far as looking at orange control 1. Great coaching aid. Next night it was the turn of my youngest to do the orienteering "clicking thing". Gotta laugh.
I have been hooked on Routegadget for some time now. But this weekend, I've just discovered how good it is for coaching children. My son is ready to move on to yellow, but lacks a bit of confidence. So in the comfort of our lounge, we're able to plot his route on white, discussing it as we go, then have a look at yellow and compare the differences between the two. We even got as far as looking at orange control 1. Great coaching aid. Next night it was the turn of my youngest to do the orienteering "clicking thing". Gotta laugh.
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: Moving on from Yellow to Orange
Manishjabed wrote:We are trying to propose our son on from Yellow to Citrus but it is proving embarrassing. We are in a teentsy guild with no employment. We (the parents) are self-taught (not real fine!), also never having had any coaching.
We feature proven close enunciate an Citrus instruction and talking him finished it but when he tries on his own he struggles and gets demoralised. Essentially we haven't the foggiest how to buccaneer him as we don't bed the experience.
Does anyone eff any ideas/techniques as to how to get him backrest on excerpt?
He has shown great outlook at Old stratum with pulpit places at the Scottish and Brittanic 6 Days so it would be a dishonor if he gives up now.
Lovely stuff.
“Success is 99% failure� -- Soichiro Honda
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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