I presume from reading between the lines that you had a backup punch, but your card had other backup punches in which you obviously hadn't got that day. The rule would seem to be that if you want your backups to count you must start with a new card with no previous punches on it. Not really a case of making it up as you go along, but a perfectly sensible rule for using the backup on Emit, otherwise how can they tell you didn't already have the punch, given the relative low-tech of the system (even if it wasn't on your course, you might have punched it accidentally, and I'm curious how you know for sure that was the case anyway - were you cross-checking your backup punches?)
Personally I put a new card in for the relays having only got a backup punch at the finish line on previous days - just in case I needed a backup.
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Because I didn't punch any extra controls on the classic, I definitely definitely punched the right control in the relay (along with the wrong one) and there was a hole in the right place but the bloke at the desk was too busy sorting out malfunctioning computers to be bothered arguing with me or putting a note with my card and just discarded it. Annoyed Bedders? Yes indeedy.
Rule 20.5 says that a control card must show all controls visited, and in electronic punching systems back up must be shown if the electronic punching unit fails. I provided that. Simple as.
Rule 20.5 says that a control card must show all controls visited, and in electronic punching systems back up must be shown if the electronic punching unit fails. I provided that. Simple as.
Bedders.
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bedders - diehard
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I'm curious how you know what the pin positions on the classic were, and that they were different?
Also interested how you can prove that the punch wasn't there before you started, given it obviously wasn't a pristine card?
Also interested how you can prove that the punch wasn't there before you started, given it obviously wasn't a pristine card?
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Or for that matter, at a typical event, how can you prove that your backup card wasn't one of 100 discarded on the floor of the result tent by previous finishers? Wait in the queue until a clubmate who actually visited all the controls comes along...(should work for unforked courses anyway). The manual backup thing is pretty weak all in all.
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JimB - off string
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Meh. Looks like i am in the wrong. Couldn't give a toss really, just wanted to make you all squabble. It worked. I am happy as a result.
However, my point stands. If that were to happen in a world champs (i know it wouldnt, they'd change all the cards for them etc) there is no way they could disqualify them if the card says they went to the right control. Interesting really. But Jim B is right, the back up card is a very flawed system.
And AR, I can prove nothing of course, but all the control numbers have a set position to appear on the card and I did not have control number 90 the previous day when the card was used the first time, although I could never prove I didn't go to it by mistake as my splits for the classic never appeared in the results. I know what I did...just happy this happened in a non-important race.
However, my point stands. If that were to happen in a world champs (i know it wouldnt, they'd change all the cards for them etc) there is no way they could disqualify them if the card says they went to the right control. Interesting really. But Jim B is right, the back up card is a very flawed system.
And AR, I can prove nothing of course, but all the control numbers have a set position to appear on the card and I did not have control number 90 the previous day when the card was used the first time, although I could never prove I didn't go to it by mistake as my splits for the classic never appeared in the results. I know what I did...just happy this happened in a non-important race.
Bedders.
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bedders - diehard
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I know this is banter, but it is actually a serious point - how do you know how the controls correlate to the backup pin positions, and how many backup pin positions are there?
In a world champs, the backup pin issue can be solved by having a printed backup card for each competitor and event - having had these before, I was a little surprised not to get a set for JK (and if felt necessary for this to be checked to be clear in the start lanes).
In a world champs, the backup pin issue can be solved by having a printed backup card for each competitor and event - having had these before, I was a little surprised not to get a set for JK (and if felt necessary for this to be checked to be clear in the start lanes).
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Adventure Racer wrote:I know this is banter, but it is actually a serious point - how do you know how the controls correlate to the backup pin positions, and how many backup pin positions are there?
Because they're manufactured that way! - particular pin position for certain control number. Except the newer ones, which can be programmed, and this can screw the whole system up (as I well know...). Number of pin positions - looking at the card about 140, less than the possible range of controls so I guess some share them. Which could in theory cause its own problems...
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distracted - addict
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distracted wrote:Number of pin positions - looking at the card about 140, less than the possible range of controls so I guess some share them. Which could in theory cause its own problems...
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