iraq - over two years on..

[bendover]

i keep myself up to date on the iraq crisis and what an utter wanker bush is. my main way of doing this is via blogs as opposed to the popular news sites.

one site that i check regularly, has just had it's second anniversary. it's author has posted a review of every major violent episode in iraq since the site came into existence. it's sobering and in some way puts the scale of what is going on over there into perspective.
WARNING - some of the images that accompany this piece are quite disturbing/gory.

EDIT - in light of the below comment i've taken the link away cos of the possibility of kids going to it. the other sites below should be no problem. pm me for a link to the other site.

if you found this site interesting, some of the following sites have a stimulating and ongoing debate.

baghdad burning
mblog
and this about bush's most recent speech

[LostAgain]

Be warned the IMAGES are Graphic and worse than will be seen in British media.

Not sure these links should be included on an orienteering forum. I'd hate my kids to access them!!

Can we have a moderators view on this?

I'm not saying its wrong, just is it the right forum.

[Ed]

it's in the banter forum which has a health warning anyway, and Ben's put a warning in that the images are gory - that is, as the (possibly inappropriate in this case) saying goes, life. it's just that most people reading this forum will (luckily for them) never have to experience those parts of it, which doesn't mean they shouldn't be aware of how nasty it is. perhaps if the mainstream media applied a little less self-censorship then the reality of such situations would maybe be a bit wider understood.

[FatBoy]

As I've said many times but not here: Any leader who thought that Iraq wouldn't turn into a complete mess if you remove it's leaders and armies is either lying or stupid. Look at the Balkans or Northern Ireland for details. Afghanistan was relatively lucky - Iraq not so. Not saying Hussein was good but was this really the best option?

[bedders]

So what do you suggest then?

[FatBoy]

Now or before?

Now: We have no option but to finish what we started and try and keep some peace until the locals have some sort of country left, as we've done in the Balkans (deliberatly skirting the NI issue).

Before: I suspect applying pressure on international issues as we were and letting the people of Iraq run Iraq in whatever way they saw fit was appropriate. Maybe the people would've overthrown Hussein. Maybe when he finally died his sons would've mellowed. Who knows but is it our business over here to play hero in somebody else's country without them asking?

[Asian]

Uday and Qusay, "Mellowed" what planet are you living on Fatboy? they were by far worse than Saddam, they were right evil bastards and feared far far more by the people I know in Iraq than Saddam, if it had been left until Saddam kicked the bucket then those two would really cause a whole load of crap and mess the country up!

Pressure on an international level? from who, the UN and wee Kofi "oh no I can't do anything I'm too much of a pussy to exert UN authority" Annan? The UN need to get rid of their Bureaucratic system and take decisive action.

[FatBoy]

Hey I don't hold all the answers and am happy to say so. My original point is and was that by taking the guts out of country you are going to have carnage. Whether long term that's better than what we would have had I don't think anybody is in a position to say.