who's marchin' ?

[samsonite]

whos going to the makepovertyhistory march in the morning?
loads of crusties about already, many more to come.

[brooner]

not marching, but if the weather stays good gonna go and take some photaes.

The joiners in Edinburgh will be loving it, about a third of the shops on princes st & thereabouts were boarded up yesterday.

[mharky]

i hate hippies.

why dont they just not come to edinburgh and post the money of their train ticket to afrika.

and why don't they not have concerts, and send the money its gonna cost to have the concert and send that to afrika.

and the £50million its costing for police, if all the hippies were not here they wouldn't need quite so much (if there was a terrorist attack there aint much a policeman could do about a bomb, or a plane flying into geleagles filled with bombs is ther...)

and why doesnt Bob geldof f##k off and die.

i was watching it on the news, and those stupid world savers were saying how "its good that we are here, we think our presence will be felt by the G8 leaders and they wil listen to our cause". my arse! they dont give a s##t what you hippies think. DIE!

[PeterG]

I rapidly came to the conclusion that I just don't care enough to put up with the smell or the naivety.

The number of people walking out in front of cars is phenomenal.

[peterb]

To 'build' upon the good point Mharky is making.
Yeah I can see where Bobby is coming from in saying lets have a big concert to raise money to tackle poverty, but did anyone think of the actual profit made after you've taken off the cost for licenses, police, bands, accomodation, etc.
What good did Live Aid do? (I'm too young to know)
How much profit did that make?
Yeah Bob is only trying to do his bit for the world, but surely there must be some other way of raising money for the poor?
I don't think that just by having one big concert will help as much as having loads of smaller events. Take the Asian tsunami for example. Yeah there may have been a few concerts here and there but the majority was probably local fund-raising events. Events that dont take millions in planning and running.

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced that this on its own will help.

Instead of piling the money into it, how about actually piling the money in AND actually doing something with it?

[brooner]

em gonna have to stop you there, you seem to be missing the point of these concerts completely. Live8 is not to about raising money at all (hence why tickets were (more or less) free), but to raise awareness of the situation in africa and the drop the debt campaign etc and put some pressure & world focus on the G8 meeting this week.

As for the concerts, i'm not the biggest fan of it, it just seem a very nice back slapping affair doing our bit for saving the world (but also doing very nicely for our own careers - ooh look how nice and charitable we are, doing this show for free while the record companies will be minting it in.) I quite agree with Damon Albarn that the artists performing should actually be paying to partake. Same goes for the Live Aid singles & the artists involved, i'm sure the record companies made nowt off that either.

cynical? me? nah.

empty empty streets of edinburgh today (before the march this is) with police blockades and stuff was very much 28 days later and quite eerie.

[DesignatedDriver]

its not simply about raising money. its about raising awareness of the problem.
bringing it to the attention of those infamous 8 men/women.
i believe they have three goals
Cancel Third world debt
Double the amount of aide being given
Increase trade relations

getting all the people into the city, is trying to prove to G8 that all these people care enough about it to travel to Edinburgh and give up their time. same idea with the concert - all the bands giving up their time etc.

(just thought i should put up a rant for the other half of the debate.)

can i just say that i am not doing the march - and for no other reason than i can't be bothered walking to the meadows - yes, the meadows are only 20 minutes from my flat. i is hungover again.

[peterb]

There will be some genuine people in the crowd, but with the likes of U2, the Killers etc etc some majority of the crowd will show little or no interest in the actual aim of staging this concert, and only be there for the money.
Which, I guess is the danger in staging it.
If awareness is the issue, then what else is happening in addition to staging the march in Edinburgh which will get better attendance from the genuine protesters than from the music fans.

[Guest]

Edit:

There will be some genuine people in the crowd, but with the likes of U2, the Killers etc etc some majority of the crowd will show little or no interest in the actual aim of staging this concert, and only be there for the money.

should read:
There will be some genuine people in the crowd, but with the likes of U2, the Killers etc etc some majority of the crowd will show little or no interest in the actual aim of staging this concert, and only be there for the music.

[Meat Market]

I think its only natural to try and raise awareness for this sort of thing but i reckon any aliens whove been secretly watching the human race over the last few centuries will have come to the conclusion that when it comes down to it we are a lot better at saying things than doing them and live8 is just another case of us talking about the problem. At the end of the day if we didnt interfere in their countrys' business, didnt take their money and try and sell them weapons im sure theyd be able to sort the problem themselves in a couple of generations. The problem is not africa but the rest of the world.

[Matt L]

I think its only natural to try and raise awareness for this sort of thing but i reckon any aliens whove been secretly watching the human race over the last few centuries will have come to the conclusion that when it comes down to it we are a lot better at saying things than doing them and live8 is just another case of us talking about the problem. At the end of the day if we didnt interfere in their countrys' business, didnt take their money and try and sell them weapons im sure theyd be able to sort the problem themselves in a couple of generations. The problem is not Africa but the rest of the world.

Some of what you say is true. However, your assertion that if we (developed nations) left them (undeveloped nations) alone they'd sort themselves out is simply not. The answer is not draw a line between us and them, but to work, and trade, with them in a fair/free manner. I agree that the rest of the world is largely to blame; it is protectionism eg. US steel and peanut domestic subsidies and the CAP that prevent countries in Africa selling their goods on the global market for a fair price. But, African countries would do better embrace, not resist, globalisation. It is through welcoming multinationals that countries such as Taiwan and Vietnam have worked their way out of poverty to become market leaders in technology and textiles.
You mention weapons. It is not so much our selling of weapons to African nations but our inability to take a firm line with corrupt governments that causes still further problems. Cancelling debt sounds good, and indeed can help eradicate poverty, but if there is no means to ensure that corruption stops and good governance prevails, such action will be worthless.

As for M P H and live8, I am, I'm afraid, very sceptical too. There's lots of talk but much of it is meaningless. I am also curious as to how many of the people in Hyde park or Edinburgh are a) there for the cause more than the music, and b) understand and subscribe to Geldof and co's method for ending poverty in Africa. Sadly, I don't understand it; but then as far as I can see no-one's really made it very clear.

[helen]

i couldn't agree more matt. funnily enough, thats EXACTLY what me and my parents were saying only a few minutes before i read your post. and i couldn't have put it better myself.

the key is education really. its down to the governments of the countries to get an education system in place that is free, and the leadership is too corrupt. but one of the main problems is the culture. it is a culture where education is not valued, and so theres not a lot that the G8 leaders can actually do. The spread of AIDS is down to culture too, and yes poverty means that they are unable to afford the drugs, but the spread is purely down to the culture in which men are so dominant and will go to cities, sleep around and then go back to sleep with their wives, who are subject to their husbands. and the men refuse to wear condoms.

basically its the culture thats the main problem, and the corrupt governments, but not the poverty.

[Harley]

Now I'm not a regular contributor to these forums (2 I think) but I feel I have to respond rant on this one.
Firstly, well said Matt.
Secondly, I think we should be a bit careful about blaming Africans for their current plight. When we talk about corrupt African leaders we should remember that many of these leaders are only there because of the support bribery and corruption of western governments and multinational companies. Just think of Mobutu - thank god he's gone.
To suggest that Africans have only themselves to blame because they cant be bothered to get an education is so far off the mark. African kids will walk for hours in bare feet to get to school – education is very highly valued, it’s just not available. I know, I’ve seen it, having spent 2 years delivering so-called aid to one of the poorest countries on the planet.
We in the west have, over the last few centuries, and continue to, rape Africa for its natural resources. We are not interested in developing opportunity in these underdeveloped countries we are only interested on maximising our profits by limiting those countries economies to that of primary producers – eg mining. And there aint much profit nor future in being a primary producer – once its gone its gone! We do as well to remember that the economic power of these multinationals often far outstrips the power of the country they are doing a deal with. Not a very even basis for getting a fair deal, eh! Its sort of like a makor supermarkey doing a deal with a farmer to supply potatoes – who do you think calls the shots?
Real economic opportunity will only happen if (as has happened in Asia) we are prepared to let African nations develop and trade their products fairly and freely on the world market. And I’m not talking about trading in the flowers and green beans that we buy from Tescos, the production of which claims the health and lives of thousands of peasant workers who have lost their own lands to these vast flower farms. Africa needs to be able to produce commodity goods on an equal footing. Africa needs to be able to keep its educated workforce instead of having it poached by the rich nations. Africa must be able to control the trade in its resources instead of having to sell them off just to repay the debts it incurred in allowing western companies to set up in the first place. What a double whammy that was!
So why don’t the Western governments do anything about it. Simply put, it will hurt our own economies and the competitiveness of our own industries. It will cost western jobs.
OK rant over, I could keep going all night.

[Mrs H.]

just thought I'd pop by and state the glaringly obvious point that the mere fact that that this is being debated in an orienteering forum in an animated and (by some) informed way at this time must mean that awareness has to some extent been heightened, and however cynical you may be, that means that bob and co have achieved in part what they set out to do.

Whatever you think about it MHP means that the G8 will receive enourmous attention from the general public - because they like you are now thinking about the problem - its probable causes and possible solutions.

Also thought the concert was better than expected - lacked the passion and fervour of Live Aid but better than the usual Saturday night TV - even if the young bands were as pale as pish - and sorry stodgetta - why doesn't robbie sing his own songs instead of getting the audience to do it for him - Peter Kaye was better for god sake.

Good to see the old guys like entwhistle and gilmour can still rock - i feel sorry for the kids of today - don't imagine we'll still be listening to their bands in 30 years time!

[Drew]

i marched, as i wanted to play with the anarchists.
They have really funny black costumes.