Yvette Baker Predictions

[Mrs H.]

Have to say you're sounding frightfully smug today Awk, shame about the grammar: "more bigger"

[awk]

Have to say you're sounding frightfully smug today Awk, shame about the grammar: "more bigger"

Ouch!! Pretty awful, isn't it?! My only excuse is that I didn't preview it, and this typing black on dark grey remains interesting to say the least.

Smug about what? If you mean YBT - yes I suppose I am a bit: it's great to see how it's developed, it's nice that the Scots decided it's worth copying, and equally good that the Compass Sport Cup has now copied the scoring system too. Given the effort and time it's taken over the years, Sunday was fabulous to see, especially with Chasers taking it on another stage further, and so many juniors so obviously enjoying it.

[HOCOLITE]

AWK
It's so good that the nosiest club think they should get automatic qualification to ensure the atmosphere!

Our youngsters really enjoyed it although very few had 'faultless runs' and would love to be back next year. Have to see if we can play the system to ensure qualification!!! Seriously it's obvious some regions are much stronger than others so it can happen as last year that a club as good as OD don't qualify.

[Blanka]

Seriously it's obvious some regions are much stronger than others so it can happen as last year that a club as good as OD don't qualify.

So this year they avoided that by going to the qualifier in East Anglia. Presumably last year OD weren't as strong?

Given their performance at the final, I'm sure that OD would have beaten the other clubs at the WM club so I suspect that this time it probably would have been one of the other WM clubs not going through to the final?

Blanka

[HOCOLITE]

Blanka last time Dee paid a surprise visit to WM round and squeezed OD out, so I think they chose to play safe this year. Could it happen that host club decides to go elsewhere and other clubs do same so no club from region actually goes through?

[Blanka]

Blanka last time Dee paid a surprise visit to WM round and squeezed OD out, so I think they chose to play safe this year. Could it happen that host club decides to go elsewhere and other clubs do same so no club from region actually goes through?

There is a clause in the rules to say that...

5d) If any association is unrepresented after (b) and (c), then the highest scoring club from that association from any qualifying match will qualify, as long as they were a complete team.

So presumably another WM club got through at one of the other rounds, which is why it didn't apply to OD last year.

But this year, even though WAOC were beaten by OD at the qualifier, they still got through because there was no other EA club running elsewhere and WAOC beat SOS (these were the only two EA teams in the competition this year).

I guess you'd have to look at last year's results, but it's probably not too important anyway!!

[HOCOLITE]

Last year WCH were the WM club, but when DEE came down OD did not get the second place, which was available due to WCH having been top 5 previous year.

In WM there were 5 competitive clubs this year, out of 6 in the region, and due to rules and OD going to EA 3 qualified.

Next year HOC will have to fight with WCH to get in to the final, and I'm sure the kids will do their best. It is becoming quite a strategic operation to work out where to compete to optimise the chances of qualifying from the WM.

[awk]

Mike Smithard, the Dee team manger, told me that the reason Dee came to Beacon Fell, was that Aire were going, making the total clubs running up to five, increasing the chances of clubs qualifying from the NW round.

We didn't go to the YHOA one because (a) the original venue was actually further away than the NW round at Beacon Fell, and (b) because it fell on the first weekend of half term when most of our families were going to be away on holiday, school clubs don't always operate, and we had lost our 5 top runners to Start Squad weekend.

[Jo]

OD went to the EA round because all the warwick uni people thought they were going to go to the VEnice Street O (at the same time as the WM round) and although it meant none of our start squad members could be there as it was the same weekend. We particularly like to include uni and school orienteers wherever possible. WE didn't go to EA for an easier round.

[Dan]

OD will lose no-one from this years team except GG who didnt run anyway. Only two(maybe three) of our counters move up an age class, and i think the yellow and orange runners will always be there with the feeder school and university bringing in new runners.

Although some of the 16's did quite well in the green (david schorah, chris smithard, stef blomqvist) it maybe seems like they might as well not go for some of them, as even if they have perfect runs, they are running against people 4-5 years older than them and could still come half way down. I would think that a blue should be introduced for at least 20s and maybe 18s as well as the gap between those 2 age groups is not as noticeable. Also the green for the M20/18 guys is not really long enough. Apart from that I think the system works well at the moment and the gold standard restrictions are fair.

[Guest]

Agree with you Dan about Blue. Mr Hocolite was saying exactly that the other night. The only trouble is that if clubs haven't got 18/20's then the same 16's will end up running v the 20's. This is probably more so in case of girls. Perhaps a blue is only viable for Men. No change for Rob and Dan until they reach M20!!!

Hocolite

[Lumpy Lycra]

The only trouble is that if clubs haven't got 18/20's then the same 16's will end up running v the 20's.

but isn't that the point? that the club with the best strength in depth should do best?

Can Awk shed any light on why there is no blue course?

[bolder]

Blue definitely required for M20.
Though that has been said for at least the last 2 years.

[awk]

TCan Awk shed any light on why there is no blue course?

We started off with an open blue, with green being the sole course reserved for the women (separating courses into M and W all the way through is relatively recent). When we introduced separate gender competition all the way through, we changed to green for both genders, as the shorter distance enabled M16s to be more competitive against the 18s and 20s. As Green distance is about a Medium distance race for M20s and 18s, we didn't feel that the older ones were missing out, rather getting something for which there is regularly a lot of requests - more medium distance races.

As to whether an additional class should be provided on top of the Green, I disagree. The Green is consistently one of the smallest courses (in terms of numbers running) at the YBT. To split it into two courses with even smaller numbers would bias the competition unduly to the older end, especially as other older runners (M/W16+) do score on other courses.

I would also disagree that 16s "might as well not go". Enough certainly seem to count for their clubs on Green, and get in amongst the 18s and 20s: this year was no exception. If the club is lucky enough to have good 18s and 20s, then they might not count that year, but they certainly contribute to preventing other clubs' runners from scoring higher points and gain experience of a high quality race. Aire would not have won last year without the M16s on the Green and we had good M18/20s too.


All in all, whilst the M (and to lesser extent, W)16s will find it tough, I don't see any real justification for splitting the competition down further into ever smaller classes. Those 16s will get even better chances to do well in future years.