Eligibility for Area Champs in 2009

[madmike]

On another thread, Gnitworp asked what the eligibility criterion was for Area Champs/National Events was in 2009 (the transition year). I.E. are they completely open or by affiliated Area. Answer from BOF is as follows:

Southern Area Champs: SEOA, SWOA, SCOA.
Northern Area: YHOA, NEOA, NWOA
Midlands: WMOA EMOA EAOA
note: Welsh are not eligible for Midlands as there is a Welsh Champs.

Not sure what will happen in 2010 - more to run on this one methinks!

Therefore, Southern Area Champs at Burnham Beeches on 22 Feb 09 will see only SE/SC/SW runners eligible for Area prizes. However, event is also a National Event for ranking purposes and of course Interland will be run at the event.

And before anybody asks, English runners in the Interland Team running in an age group on the appropraite course willl be eligible for Southern Area prizes if they are affilaited to a club in the southern area. All Interland runners will also get BOF ranking points!

[Gnitworp]

Does keeping the Championships 'regionalised' deprive them of the prestige they had pre-1985 when they weren't? Being Southern, Northern or Midlands Open Champion then was quite highly-rated. I thought the idea now was to give these events more prestige.
BTW, as far as I know, the Southern Nights remains, and always has been, an Open Championship; is this to change?

[madmike]

Does keeping the Championships 'regionalised' deprive them of the prestige they had pre-1985 when they weren't? Being Southern, Northern or Midlands Open Champion then was quite highly-rated. I thought the idea now was to give these events more prestige.
BTW, as far as I know, the Southern Nights remains, and always has been, an Open Championship; is this to change?

Not sure on your former point as I was still a cross-country and road runner back then and had never heard of orienteering.

wrt Southern Nights the view appears to be that this decision rests with the organising association! Can someone who's good with IT set up a poll?

[Gross]

So where the f**k do the Scots fit in????

[roadrunner]

Does keeping the Championships 'regionalised' deprive them of the prestige they had pre-1985 when they weren't? Being Southern, Northern or Midlands Open Champion then was quite highly-rated. I thought the idea now was to give these events more prestige.
BTW, as far as I know, the Southern Nights remains, and always has been, an Open Championship; is this to change?

It certainly matches what happens in road running - anyone can enter, but only someone who meets the eligibility criteria can be county champion. The eligibility criteria are different from orienteering, though - birth or 9 months' residence in the relevant county, regardless of whether or not you're a member of a club based there (or anywhere else). In other words, unaffiliated runners can in principle win (and are often in the top ten).

But in orienteering, we seem a bit inconsistent; eligibility for area championships seems to be based on which club you're a member of (I'm not sure how that applies to clubs like BAOC), while eligibility to be British Champion requires national BOF membership plus having a British passport or a 3 months' residence in 6. Perhaps this is something that could be made a bit more consistent?

[Gnitworp]

So where the f**k do the Scots fit in????

Correct me if I'm wrong, Gross, but I thought that, unlike the English Regional Championships, The Scottish Champs is and always was an open championship with separate trophies for Scottish Native M/W21E Champions.

[greywolf]

So where the f**k do the Scots fit in????

SOA website http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/in ... ships-soc/ says

Trophies shall be available to the first Scot in each age group. For this purpose members of Scottish open Clubs shall be automatically recognised as “Scots”. Other orienteers wishing to be classed as “Scottish”, such as those born in Scotland or long-term Scottish residents currently living outside Scotland or competing for their university, must make their status known to the organiser before the race

“Scots” are any one of the following

a] born in Scotland

b] have at least one Scottish parent

c] be a member of the Scottish Orienteering Association

Note the M21E, W21E and relay trophies are still for all comers.

For the M and W Elite classes there will be three trophies – Winner, Scottish Native Champion and best Scottish Orienteering Association Member. Scottish Native Champions must have been born in Scotland and not just member of a Scottish club.

[madmike]

[quote="roadrunner"][
(I'm not sure how that applies to clubs like BAOC),

BAOC are affiliated to one of the Southern Regions SE or SC - can't remember which off hand. RAFO are affiliated to East Anglia and RMOC are probably SW but not so sure on them. Members of these dispersed clubs (if nominated as first Clubs) can run competitively in respective area champs. Personally I have HH as my first club so I am not eligible in the Midlands through RAFO but am competitive in Southern or would be if I lost 4 stone and made less mistakes

[Adventure Racer]

BTW, as far as I know, the Southern Nights remains, and always has been, an Open Championship; is this to change?

I thought we'd already been over that one - if you know better, then I want my name on that trophy!

[NeilC]

The Southern Nights is not open (although may have been in the past). Because there is no area (ie south, midlands, north) authority, ie the equivalent of a regional association, then there is no one to write, enforce or advise on the rules. Scotland and Wales are a bit different because they can be considered as both regions and areas in this respect, and so do have the appropriate body to make these decisions, just as SEOA for example can decide who is eligible for SEOA championships. I can't see complete consistency ever being applied (eg eligibility for the Northern Champs by virtue of having a Lancastrian parent), but at least having them all essentially open or closed would be sensible. As the first post in this thread indicates, closed is the current model.

[EddieH]

I agree 100% with what I think Gnitworp is hinting at. National events were brought in to replace the original 4 "regional" championships - all were open and with just 6 events in the year (incl BOC and JK), many people went to all 6 and very large numbers to 5. I was never in favour of scrapping what seemed to me a popular and balanced system, but I did my best to make the change work by becoming National Events panel co-ordinator, a job designed to ensure the standard of these events would be maintained - I don't know what happened to this panel, but it has seemed for some time that there has been no control whatever on standards.

As such I see a return to 4 regional championships a very positive move, but with noe incentive whatever (that I can see) to treat them as important (i.e. ranking points for running round your local patch at a.n. other event are equal) then the ONLY other way to give them meaning is to make them all open.

[Gnitworp]

Exactly my point Eddie - eloquently put

[mharky]

I think having them open is the best way.

All we need now is 1million dollars worth of gold, and anyone who wins the Scottish, Welsh, 3 regionals and the British Champs gets in on the pot...

[frog]

I hadn't realised English area champs weren't open. There are very few events in Scotland where anyone who wants can't have a run. Some clubs run their club champs that way, schools events are just for schools and the Jamie Stevenson is just kids (which is a pain for the parents, who can have a run if they hang about for ages, but by then the kids have finished and don't want to wait for you). In general if you're putting on an event you want as many folk as poss. You just limit who can win trophies if it's a Scottish/ East Scotland/Club champs.
Do English events just attract too many competitors so they need to restrict numbers?

[SYO Member]

Frog, English area champs have always been, and will continue to be open with regard to anybody being able to enter them, win the various classes, and gain Ranking points.

The restriction is that only those eligible can take home the relevant age-class trophies (i.e. you're a member of a club in the specific area).