Organising starts with waterproof maps

[IanD]

Today I was standing in the start box, shivering slightly despite wearing a thermal vest. My fingers were cold inside my gloves. It had just stopped raining, but the maps, and everything else for that matter, was obviously wet.

"The maps have all stuck together" said the start official. "Please make sure you only take one". As I started, I could see one competitor from the previous minute still struggling to separate out just one of several maps apparently glued together.

Fortunately, I had a very late start, and I could see there were plenty of maps left in my box. I therefore had no qualms about setting off after I has spent only a few seconds peeling off several maps from the wodge which had come out after my first attempt at picking up just one.

These maps stayed firmly stuck together all the way round my course. If you'd asked me how many I had, I would have guessed at three. When I got to the end, by which time my fingers had warmed up, and invested further time in separating them, I was pleased to find I only had two. Which was nice, as the top one was rather muddy, so I am able to throw that away and keep the clean one.

I don't think it is a good idea for organisers to put people in the position of having to choose between wasting time and running with multiple maps. I have two suggestions for avoiding this.

1) the organiser should add one or two people to the start team whose role shall be to separate a new top map from the pile after each starter, so that there is always a single loose map waiting for each competitor.

If this is not practical, either due to a shortage of manpower, or due to the wind being liable to remove loose maps, then

2) the map boxes should be arranged so that the competitors go and stand by them at -1. The maps should be face down. Competitors should be invited to pick up a single map as soon as they reach the box, but forbidden to turn it over and look at it until they have punched the start.

If organisers are not prepared to do either of these things, or come up with some suitable equivalent, then I can only suggest printing three times as many maps as entries to ensure that they don't run out.

[mappingmum]

1) the organiser should add one or two people to the start team whose role shall be to separate a new top map from the pile after each starter, so that there is always a single loose map waiting for each competitor.

This is the norm in events organised by the SOA.

[DavidJ]

1) the organiser should add one or two people to the start team whose role shall be to separate a new top map from the pile after each starter, so that there is always a single loose map waiting for each competitor.

This is the norm in events organised by the SOA.

I presume that this was at today's BADO event at Greenham Common where, at the exposed start, it was wet, cold and windy. I was an early starter there and for me there was a helper (a young girl) whose task appeared to be to separate single copies of the maps ready for the next starter. Given the weather conditions, I suspect that after a fairly short time the novelty will have worn off and she may have retired to somewhere warmer and drier. Not a good day to be a helper so my thanks to those BADO members who staged the event.

[RJ]

A further alternative.....

Use ordinary paper and a plastic bag. Which is what in fact happened at the WCOC District event at High Brow. The weather forecast was very poor so it was decided not to ask (a) a couple of poor souls to stand for hours at the start in awful weather, or (b) to ask competitors to fight with wet maps when hands would be frozen.

Particularly when the weather is bad you can't afford to have the maps run out!! The maps for the event were printed on the Saturday when the weather forecast was fairly certain. Both options were available..... waterproof paper and paper/plastic bag. WCOC chose the plastic bag, and printed to demand on the day, when more folk turned up than might have been expected.

Having someone sorting out a single map for each course at the map boxes is a retrograde step. We should be making the system easier and more convenient, not more difficult. One of the reasons for using waterproof paper is that the organiser doesn't have to bag the maps. Well having a person at the map boxes for two hours in the freezing conditions was four times as long as it took to bag and seal 180 map units.

Are we really moving forward???????

[Angry Haggis]

I think this thread relates to the CHIG Mitre today.

Are we really moving forward???????

Yes - a lot more environmentally friendly to not be giving away hundreds of plastic map bags at each event every week - particularly as they wouldn't normally be reused.

Maybe covered boxes, or boxes tipped on their sides, would fix the sticky map problem.

[IanD]

I won't identify the event, I'm trying to make a general point and don't want to get sidetracked into discussion of one particular event.

Having someone sorting out a single map for each course at the map boxes is a retrograde step

Perhaps. But in my view bagged maps would be a retrograde step too. Any objections to my option 2?

[distracted]

I've seen the "maps in one large plastic bag" option to keep them out of the rain . This seemed to work fairly well - as long as the bag is big enough, and isn't angled upwards by being in a box.

[Adventure Racer]

Perhaps. But in my view bagged maps would be a retrograde step too. Any objections to my option 2?

Maybe not in a championship/selection event, but in that case option 1 should be used. I'm not sure I understand why a separate person is needed for that - is it really that time consuming unless there are lots of people starting on every minute, and are the start officials already fully occupied? I've certainly seen it being done by existing start personnel (from what I've seen it didn't appear somebody was allocated just to that task).

[NeilC]

At JK Day 3 this year (Ashdown Forest) the boxes containing the maps were put in black bin liners to keep the rain/snow off. Competitors also stood by the boxes in the last minute and picked up a map with 10 secs to go. The former worked well and the maps stayed dry, the latter didn't work so well. Many competitors mistook the instruction to stand by the box for an instruction to start and so grabbed a map and had to be caught by a start official. Others picked up their map and started to look at at immediately.

Keeping boxes of maps dry should not be a difficult task. Following a review of regional events in the SE earlier this year the Pretex map-sticking problem was identified to all clubs, and rain yesterday was hardly unexpected. Borrowing/hiring a tunnel tent from a neighbouring club to put the map boxes in would be an alternative solution.

[RJ]

......... a lot more environmentally friendly to not be giving away hundreds of plastic map bags at each event every week - particularly as they wouldn't normally be reused.

In rough terms the 'plastic component' used in the waterproof map and the ordinary plastic bag are roughly equivalent. The waterproof map might not end up in landfill immediately.... but in due course ALL of them will, as we get rid of the boxes of our competition maps when we tire of the sport or get old! At least the clear plastic bag can be reused, and councils have recycle systems for them as well.

Waterproof maps and bad weather problems..... Be careful that you don't find yourselves defending a system that can't be defended. There is no environmental advantage.... just a saving of effort by the organiser prior to the event.

[NeilC]

just a saving of effort by the organiser prior to the event.

That's a good enough reason for me, especially for major events. Aside from the time spent bagging, sealing and pricking, several thousand bagged maps are both very heavy and very difficult to handle - they won't stay in a neat pile.

[RJ]

....... Borrowing/hiring a tunnel tent from a neighbouring club to put the map boxes in would be an alternative solution.

That used to be the case when we used master maps, fifteen years ago!! Trying to maintain a tunnel tent on a windswept fellside in exactly the sort of weather that gives the problem with maps sticking together is a nightmare!

Use waterproof paper for those occasions when the weather is not of real concern, and plastic bags when the forecast is bad. Waterproof paper saves effort by the organiser. Plastic bags save all that hassle and extra provision (boxes, covers, tents) when the weather is bad, and does not involve the competitor in a 'fight with the situation' at the start.

[EddieH]

I think IanD's second idea is an EXCELLENT solution for small events when you don't wish to allocate someone to stand there. I have long thought that in all big events there should be someone allocated to ensure there is a separate map for every starter - even with plastic bags it is all too easy to pick up 2 then drop one which happens to fall into some other courses box. I've not only known that happen, but I've even see it on several occasions.

[Snail]

In my experience keeping the maps dry - whether by tent / plastic bag / whatever - doesn't really help - or not enough. I spent some time a few weeks back handing out unused maps, and even with warm hands and dry maps it is still all too easy to pick up multiple copies.

I think suggestion 1 is best - and something I now recommend to start teams when I am controlling. Agree that suggestion 2 can work for low-key events, but there is still a danger that someone only realises they have multiple copies just before they start and then drops a map back into the wrong box (unless they are widely spaced) - and if you have someone watching for this you might just as well go for suggestion 1.

I think clubs do tend to just take the maps out of the printer's box and drop them into course boxes. This is where a less neat approach might pay dividends, eg using larger boxes and deliberately splaying out the maps (like a hand of cards); or putting them (when dry) in a box with an edge not at 90 degrees, so that they are slightly offset.

[seabird]

I basically agree with the idea that you need an official to separate out individual maps for each starter.

But this is a pretty thankless task. A lot of bending with the potential of backache as well as the difficulty in the cold of separating already wet maps.

The bending problem can be dealt with by either
having the maps on a table or other raised surface
or alternatively frequently rotating the rolers odf the different start officials, which may create its own problems or co-ordination.

The maps need to be kept dry and and there should always be some shelter for the maps available if it is likely to rain.

All of which can be problematic for starts in the more remote spots, where non-waterproof maps and map bags may well be the more effective answer.