White Rose 2008

[Tatty]

What were people's views of the weekend, especially the Relays. I like the format of a score relay, but feel it needs to be more realistic.
For the A Relay class, the spine of 5 controls was far too long. Some experienced runners were coming back saying they couldn't do them in the 60 minutes alloted, let alone get any other controls. Several teams then lost ALL their scores as they were more than 15 minutes late. They were probably still looking for the spine controls
It certainly gives the impression of not being very user friendly, when in several of the classes more teams were DSQ'd than completed because of the inappropriate expectations of the planner.
It is very difficult to interrupt the results, which really need an explanation besides them.

[HOCOLITE]

Not in respect to the relays but a general comment. I was flicking through the results there seemed to be far less people than I remember being there when we used to go. It was a great event for the kids when they were younger. We stopped going when the travelling over bank holiday just got too much, four plus hours each way due to traffic became too much.

[Vidalos]

I've been attending the White Rose off and on since the late 70's when as an M13 it was my first experience of a 'big' orienteering event ! Other than the change of relay format it's changed little over the years..........you know what you're going to get ! It's a great event for clubs and families with serious competition for those who want it. Central campsites , walking from camping to starts and back from the finish make for 'relaxing' weekends (well no further travel anyway) and I hope it continues this.

The areas this year were definitely pyhsical but in different ways and I suppose many (including me ! ) did not learn from this when it came to the team score event. Just doing the spine was challenging enough and with some thought and planning (and the experience of running on the areas the previous days !) may be more of us should have seen this. Also at previous WR's it has been possible to get all the controls and this conditions thinking. As I was running round on Monday I thought the planner had really caught people out (may be it was a bit too long on the spine) but I still enjoyed it and will be back for more next year.

[LostOldTimer]

Regarding Camping this year - did some people choose not to because of the rain/'damp' conditions underfoot? There didnt seem to be as many camping as previously.

Did everyone find a suitable pitch ok, or were they also surrounded by mud?
Did you think Ebor had provided enough space for camping - It didnt seem like they lost any due to the wet weather, as couldnt see where else people could have gone, or was it just not thought about properly? Certainly, they werent sticking to the Health and safety rules concerning space between each tent, and certainly could have been a fire hazard.
Werent all cars though supposed to be parked in the main central area, not in the small congested area near the Finish?
Did anyone notice a nice 'dry' grassy area that someone had taped off as well as around their tent/cars? that could have been used.

Thought courses were only as tough asexpected for an August White Rose, but with the addition of a little mud.
Day 1, 2nd control on course 4 - crag - Heard a few people mention it may have bee on wrong crag... but after looking carefully at the map - when back home, there is an additional crag to the west, mostly obscured by the control circle and line overprint except for one of the tags - I thought the circle, and line was supposed to be cut if it obscured important detail?

[LostOldTimer]

I neer liked the changed format from the original relays that they used to run... There were always less competitors there on the Monday, and even more so now... perhaps the Monday should be made a third 'normal' race day?

Anyone go o the interesting warm-up event at 'Kew arboretum - Castle Howard' - a small but interesting area of blocks of specimen trees with grassy rides - well done to Roberts' & co for putting that on. A good idea t have a warm-up / sprint race every year.
Also Could use the whole of Castle Howard estate - permission permitting of course - Ebor?

[DB]

The areas this year were definitely pyhsical but in different ways and I suppose many (including me ! ) did not learn from this when it came to the team score event. Just doing the spine was challenging enough and with some thought and planning (and the experience of running on the areas the previous days !) may be more of us should have seen this.

This was our second White Rose and was much different to last year's, the weather certainly played its part but the campsite was awful (ex army camp not helping) compared to last year. Its only saving grace was that it was close to hardstanding enabling the cars to get close to the camping equipment.

I'm not sure what Vidalos means by the quote of 'doing the spine was challenging enough but with thought and planning more should have seen this'. Seen what? If you want to enter semi competitively then you expect a spine that all three members have a realistic chance of making. Due to poor fitness on my part admittedly i only managed two as didn't go for more as hadn't hope in hell of getting all five. We entered "one lady" class, our only other option would have been Ad Hoc. Both of these were classed as A. We entered the same class as last year but last year had a realistic spine which we all got.

I prefer the Multi event weekends so judging the comments on Nope (and impressed by the large number of entrants), next year i'll be heading for the Purple Thistle as that event seems to have made all competitors happy.

[SIman]

next year i'll be heading for the Purple Thistle as that event seems to have made all competitors happy.

I fear that you may have to wait until 2010 for that. The word from Nope is that every second year is the plan - unless they can be persuaded differently

[candyman]

What do you think is the main factor which would/could bring the 15-25s back? Change in format, maybe an Urban/Sprint race or Sprint relay? Social Activities?

[Gross]

Cheap beer..........

[madmike]

Good points:

Both indivdual days and team race walkable from the campsite -compact event.
Individual days well planned.
all the controls in the right place (I ran cse 4)
good chance to socialise

Bad points:

The spine was way way too long on the A Cse on day 3 and involved far too much fight through extremely physically demanding terrain. I suspect some individuals probably could not have made the spine in the 75 minutes allowed before DQ let alone 60mins. The demands of the spine, therefore, reduced difference a good plan makes in this kind of team score event.
Control circles were not cut where they obscured features of importance in several cases!

Overall:

A good White Rose on a basic but adequate campsite in typical White Rose Terrain. Team race a good fun format but overplanned this year cf the last 3 years.

[Gross]

all the controls in the right place (I ran cse 4)

And you classify that as a good point??? As if you were expecting something else???

[King Penguin]

Castle Howard as a warm up really did help us to justify attending, esp. as we could only do the Saturday of the main event and had to be back home for the Sunday.

[Wayward-O]

Good points:all the controls in the right place (I ran cse 4)

From our experience, some controls were definitely NOT in the correct place, especially control No. 150 on Day 1 which, rather than being on the Path / Stream Crossing as indicated in the CDs, was in fact on a Path / Path Junction a good 25m from the stream. Also, the depth of mud on the ride between controls 138 and 133 on Day 1 made it inappropriate for the JM2 / JW2 / Yellow courses that were sent down this route.

A quote overheard from a RAFO guy on the day was:

This area is uniquely unsuitable for Orienteering.

[Gross]

A quote overheard from a RAFO guy on the day was:

so that makes it a valid viewpoint just coz the guy is in RAFO? Means he knows everthing????

[awk]

so that makes it a valid viewpoint just coz the guy is in RAFO? Means he knows everthing????

Noooo...... just means that he was somebody Wayward-O didn't know, but could identify as being a member of RAFO.

I wouldn't have described it as particularly unsuitable, but do think the courses were way too long, especially for a multiday. I suspect that a lot of the problems (very boggy forest etc.) were caused by weather that the planner would not have been able to predict, but they were still overlong, but then they usually are (why?). It does seem to me a bit odd that in the Oringen I can thoroughly enjoy running the standard course for my age class, but in this country tend to have to run the S class to have any chance of enjoying all days of a multiday.