Ocad maps for Catching Features

[Paul Frost]

I recently got an email from someone in Denmark asking if he could have copies of the Ocad files for some of our area maps. He wants to convert them for use in Catching Features, an orienteering game.

I am interested to hear the views of others as to this request.
Would you happily send off the files?
If not, why?

[mappingmum]

No, I don't think we should be sending ocad files to any 3rd party however legitimate the request unless you can ensure the file is read-only.

The reason? Version control. As soon as a file is sent to someone then you lose control over who it's subsequently passed on to.

OCAD files need to be subjected to strict version control to prevent two seperate updates to different versions of the same map. Eventually you can end up with two maps which are ony vaguely similar. This strict version control is commonplace in application development via tools such as MS Sourcesafe.

What about copyright issues?

Perhaps a workaround would be to send small snippets, which would be considered too small to be "useful" and therefore avoid copyright issues.

I think you need to err on the side of extreme caution.

[andy]

I don't see any good reason not to. Perhaps get them to sign some agreement stating they will only be used for CF and not for orienteering without permission from SOA/ECKO?

The reason? Version control. As soon as a file is sent to someone then you lose control over who it's subsequently passed on to.
OCAD files need to be subjected to strict version control to prevent two seperate updates to different versions of the same map. Eventually you can end up with two maps which are ony vaguely similar. This strict version control is commonplace in application development via tools such as MS Sourcesafe.

Different versions of files - what a load of tosh, as long as the club has a half-decent policy (using some sort of version control or simply having a 'registered keeper' within the club) for file 'ownership' then there's no need to worry..
What could he possibly do? add some hills, hack Paul's computer and upload the new version to confuse Scottish orienteers for years to come?

Perhaps a workaround would be to send small snippets, which would be considered too small to be "useful" and therefore avoid copyright issues.

CF sprint race on 50m squared of Creag Mhic anyone?

[RJ]

Agree Andrew. However.....

In what form does the map get distributed in CF? As an image? In which case there is no problem.

[andy]

Agree Andrew. However.....

In what form does the map get distributed in CF? As an image? In which case there is no problem.

it's a T3D file which is basically a 3D graphical 'image' of the map - it'd be very hard (if not impossible?) to get the OCAD file from it. Converting from OCAD to T3D isn't an easy process either, it's really fiddly I think (not that I've tried).

[Tom R]

I think it is impossible to convert a t3d file into OCAD. Also remember that it is very easy for them to make a homemade OCAD file which is identical to the original without being given permission, you would just be saving them a load of time and effort. Whats the harm in it?

[Paul Frost]

I must admit I am of the mind of why not, and I asked the question in case anyone came up with a good reason to refuse, and so far no one has.

The were only 2 issues I could think of:
1. That people could print their own copy of the map and go out training on it. The club would not get any copyright fee for use of the map and there might be access issues. Both of these are only an issue if it was a large group of people (club or squad) doing it.

2. Having access to a high resolution image of the map could be viewed as an unfair advantage if there was an event coming up. But if the area has been used before there are copies of the map around already that people could use.

The request I had included the Kerrera & Oban maps, so my first thought was if this was someone going to the Purple Thistle and wanting to get in some training!

[greywolf]

seems to me that maps (at least of areas that have been used before) are becoming easier to find online: e.g. folk posting them on their blogs etc, and gradually the map libarary is being routegadgeted, which makes it available to everyone with a puter anyway, so can't really see what the problem is (except for areas where the map is still secret) - as Tom R says, it's easy (technically, just very timeconsuming) to make your own OCAD file if you have a jpg e.g. from routegadget.

[andy]

2. Having access to a high resolution image of the map could be viewed as an unfair advantage if there was an event coming up. But if the area has been used before there are copies of the map around already that people could use.

wait until after the event then! as greywolf says I'm sure there will be a routegadget up of the event(s) so the maps will be freely available in jpg form anyway.

[EddieH]

Who has produced the Kerrera map then? I was assuming that it was the hard work of Brooner et Co.

[Paul Frost]

Kerrera has been mapped by EckO (well Stirling Surveys did the hard bit) we just paid for it. We approached the Purple Thistle boys with the idea of Kerrera and Creag Mhic as a package and their enthusiasm helped us get Kerrera mapped.

We did get some help with a grant from Argyll & Bute Council as part of their community development fund. We are due to make presentation to the council in a few weeks to show them what we did with the money and what it would do for the community.

Looking at the entry list so far I suspect they will be happy:
295 entries, of which only 168 are from Scottish clubs. So I'm sure that bringing so many people to Oban and the money they will spend whilst here will go down well. It is also a fantastic resource for local orienteers and we also plan on making a version of the map available for tourists, as it is more detailed than the OS map.

Don't forget that the Scottish 6 Days will be based in Oban in 2011. The downside is that getting 3000+ people onto the island for one of the days is likely to prove too much of a challenge, but we keep thinking about it!