JWOC

[Mrs H]

So - what's the action today then? I think it's the middle qualifiers - what do you need to get in the A final and when does it all kick off?

It seems strange that they had a rest day after the sprint race.

[Simon]

20 to qualify for the A final from each heat. The women are almost all in and the men will all be finished fairly soon.

[Simon]

Anne Edwards, Hollie Orr, Alice Butt, and Hazel Wright through to the A final.

[andy]

looking good for Rhodri, Doug and Hector in the guys heats

[ruth]

Those results look good! 4/6 women and 3/6 men through is not bad going. Spread of times looks bigger than usual though, with 5 to 8 minutes between winner and 20th. I seem to remember its usually tighter than this (I may be completey wrong though, and have no compulsion to go and check!) so looks like it was tricky out there.

Really bad luck for julia though, 21st is never nice, but thats still a great performance for a debutant at such a young age, and now is the chance to go out and win the Bfinal!
Good luck to everyone for the rest of the week, going well so far, keep it up and we should see some great performances...I'm excited!

[Alice]

On the results of W20C page it says she was 20th not 21st???

[ruth]

Awesome! it says 21st on the live results, so someone must have been dsqed! That's great then, forget everything i just said......

[Scott]

Yeah, Eva Kabathova appears to be ej godkänd in Women's heat C.

[Stef]

Yes, Julia is through to the A Final due to someone being disqualified. She will be first starter but she says she doesnt mind that as it was very hot in the forest today so she will prefer it to be hopefully cooler.

[Scott]

And it sounds like we might have had all six girls through to the A final if Miss Stevens hadn't been rather unlucky - her compass broke on the way to her second control...

[graeme]

So I'll disagree.

Dids reckons challenging for top 15 is a great result. So it is, any of our current team who achieves that will rightly be mighty proud.

But what does a top-15 finish in one of your JWOC runs say about talent? There's 5-6 times more people in the elites, so a top-15 junior is on course to become a top-100 senior. Given this, are they likely to continue to devote their lives to orienteering?
Of course, everyone would like more resource put into their favourite bit of the sport, and we can all imagine what we could do with it. Supporting potential top-15 JWOCers means focusing resource and pressure on potential top-100 elites. Is that what we want?

In another thread, we asked "why don't you always win". There are only three answers - insufficient talent, poor preparation, poor execution. Everyone enthuses about the preparation our juniors get. I seldom see anyone blaming execution either. There's little evidence for Dids claim that there are loads of talented juniors who never make it.

The talent problem is hardly surprising. The JWOC team is mainly orienteer's children, a very small pool to search in for a unique talent and one most likely to be reaching their potential by JWOC. Worse, those parents are in the highly populated 50-55 classes - the pool of parents is about to drop sharply.

So what? Very very few people have the talent to become a world champion. Rather than forever pushing our mid-pack JWOCers through towards this unattainable international goal, and ignoring them when they fail, shouldn't we be supporting them by valuing Dan's "semi-elites" efforts at an attainable national level, so they stick with the sport? And concentate on finding talented people who are underperforming and unedrcoached to widen the pool of non-orienteers-children and find the next Scotia, Pippa or Sarah?

Finally, to echo the praise for our current JWOCers. Those I know have trained hard and prepared well - I expect those I don't know have too. Results suggest they're performing up to their ability, and nobody can ask for more.

[geomorph]

In another thread, we asked "why don't you always win". There are only three answers - insufficient talent, poor preparation, poor execution. ...... The talent problem is hardly surprising. The JWOC team is mainly orienteer's children, a very small pool to search in for a unique talent and one most likely to be reaching their potential by JWOC. Worse, those parents are in the highly populated 50-55 classes - the pool of parents is about to drop sharply.

And producing a world champion requires a peculiar mix of genetic randomness, genetic tendency and appropriate skills nurturing.

Don't think we (UK) miss out on our fair share of the first two. We (BO) may miss out on the first because of our limited pool, but its just as likely we could have created what it takes from that pool - just look at the Williams sisters in Tennis

I'm not sure that we (UK sport in general) are all that good at the last one. For a population of our size and genetic diversity our international success level is poor, both in team and individual sport.

And yes part of that failing comes from the tendency to level down outside elite when government funded. So its easy to understand where DIDSCO is coming from in terms of independence of funding.

Could a series of handicap races (as per golf) promote retention of 'semi-elites' or is this just another way of levelling down?

[Simon E]

The new Maprunner JWOC Database will show you a complete list of everybody who has represented GBR at JWOC. Quite a few names I don't even recognise in that list, plus some notable absentees. So does JWOC really predict much about WOC?

Then try taking a look at the full list of JWOC World Champions. How many people who made it to the very top at this level then totally disappeared from the world scene? This year's opening ceremony provided an interesting insight. 10 years ago the men's long race in France saw Thierry Gueorgiou and Jorgen Rostrup in second and third places, both of whom went on to be multiple World Champions. Looking further down the list that day we find another future World Champion, Pasi Ikonen in 24th, and the three Brits Ed Nash, Rob Baker and Oli Johnson. The winner was Hakan Peterson of Sweden, who never even made it to WOC. But he was lead singer in the band at the JWOC 2008 opening ceremony...

[harry]

Support is good but at the end of the day I think for British juniors to make it as seniors it comes down to whether we have the mental & physical capacity to handle the training required. ie are we motivated enough? and will our body handle it all/ adapt rather than break down (illness/ injuries)? In a tough endurance sport you need a bit of talent and a lot of hard work. If you are more talented then lucky for you but you are still going to have to work hard to get to the top!
Support is out there if people ask for it, of course it's nice if something is laid on for you, but there are plenty of people willing to help keen juniors/ young seniors if you look for them.
Maybe the "career pressure" of middle class British society plays a part too? I would recommend moving to a country where it's normal to ask for a cut in working hours eg Switzerland, Norway. Even dropping from 100% to 75% can make a big difference.

[rocky]

Stan said it best:

2x7x52x10

you have to want to do that. if you want it, you'll find a way.