Problems with access and Network Rail

[cookey]

We have had problems recently gaining agreement from Network Rail to allow access to cross unused railway lines - in fact ones that are incapable of being used in some cases - where they are within our orienteering areas in Nottinghamshire.

This has caused many problems and has totally prevented us using a newly mapped C4 area of Wellow and Ollerton Pit (SK670670). Network Rail have also refused access across the derelict railway line in Sansom Wood (SK590521).

After many failed attempts to find the right contact and obtain agreement, we asked the local MP Paddy Tipping to take up the matter with Network Rail. So far they have refused to negotiate on their initial position.

Paddy has now set up a meeting on site with Network Rail's nominated official so we can inspect the crossing in Sansom and have him explain the logic underpinning their decision.

We are hoping for some media coverage which will highlight the ludicrous decision.

This is not just a local matter but one of national interest. It is more than likely that other clubs will have had or may in the future experience exactly the same difficulties with gaining access. If so I'm sure that you would like to put your point of view and help us to get a positive outcome.

The meeting is on Friday Feb 22nd at ll.00 am at the Longdale Lane car park for Blidworth Woods (SK590524).

Several of NOC members will be there but we could do with some more support please to emphasise the point to Network Rail and to support the generous assistance being given by Paddy Tipping.

So, if you able to - please come along and help us.

Thanks

Dave Cooke
NOC Chair

[Knee Deep Mud!]

Network Rail are not picking on you because you're an orienteering club, they behave like this with everyone. Several of my colleagues are involved with the design and installation of pipelines, and the difficulties of crossing private land, motorways, SSSIs, residential land, and dealing with planning permissions, public enquiries etc, and all the agencies and landowners involved with all of these, all pale into insignificance compared to the difficulties of dealing with Network Rail. They only have one answer, and it is NO.

I wish you luck, because you'll probably feel like you're bashing your head against a brick wall!

[EddieH]

But they are publicly funded so well done to get your MP on board. Their attitude stinks.

[Kitch]

Something of a tangent this

Out of all the cerfuffle over maintenance working overruns at new year there have been reports that Network Rail can expect a hefty fine.
How does that work with a not for profit organisation ?
Surely all the fine will achieve is less money for network maintenance ?

[epocian]

Kitch - It will end up with us, the taxpayers paying as per bl**** usual!
Yet I bet the Network Rail's top brass will still get their bonuses

[King Penguin]

As Kitch says, last week you could run an event on a significant proportion of the West Coast main line without fear of being hit by a train, so why can't unused lines be crossed ? Now if there was a live third rail in could understand it...

[Big Jon]

Roseisle Forest has always had a railway in it - covered in blown sand in parts and we have crossed it at all events I can remember (back to 1978....) - maybe a difference between Scotland and England or is it a different ownership?

[EddieH]

Or have we ever asked? Who does own the line? I have no idea and don't really care. Anyway in Scotland we have a right to roam.

I thought England now had a rather diluted version of this, but as disused line is clearly not agricutural, does the new law not allow entry?

[greywolf]

Or have we ever asked? Who does own the line? I have no idea and don't really care. Anyway in Scotland we have a right to roam.

Yes, we have access rights (and responsibilities) in Scotland - but not over railways, which are explicitly excluded (paras 2.11 & 4.24). IIRC when the Access Code was being written Network Rail refused to cooperate and tried to close most of Scotland's pedestrian crossings - Ramblers Association made a lot of fuss but don't know whether it was ever sorted.

Roseisle forest is owned by Forestry Commission Scotland (or technically, by Scottish Ministers on behalf of the Scottish people) but I would imagine that the trackway is still owned by Network Rail. I'll ask the Forest District Manager when I see him...
I suspect that no-one has ever asked Network Rail, and if they did the answer would be "No" !

The line used to go all the way to Hopeman, but the rails only run to just beyond the north edge of the forest. According to this super-nerdy trainspotter site: http://www.railscot.co.uk/Hopeman_Branch/frame.htm part of the branch line as far as the Roseisle maltings was reopened for freight 10 years ago - but even that bit is mostly overgrown now

[ryeland of doom]

Dont draw attention to it. They are typical corperate idiots and of course it will be Nyet again.

As said above, the jerks tried to close off most level crossings in Scotland, they were challenged re the legal side and their spokesman just stonewalled, refusing to accept that there were different laws here. They must have wised up as they then wasted a lot of our money erecting big blue signs stating that the crossing could only be used by folk authorised to be on the land on the other side - that is of course all of us. Hopefully face was saved and that is the last we will hear of this issue. (They were threatening to situate jobsworths on munro access routes like Drumochter and fine people.)

[SYO Member]

Cookey,

Although SYO have had some permission problems in the last year, none have have been with Network Rail, even though we have 3 areas with operational railway lines running through them.

One has 3 public footpaths with no footbridge and so we have marshalls in position at events. Another has a bridge and a footpath and although the line is kept open, it only has a train every few months, allegedly carrying nuclear waste to Sellafield. The third has a long footbridge over a line that has one train a day at 14:20 and what were 3 disused lines. Walkers have created their own path under the bridge and use this. I wonder if mappers do the same!

Like NOC, we have recently got 2 new old mining areas mapped around Doncaster and although they don't have disused lines, with other similar areas in the pipeline, we may find ourselves in the same position as you.

As you asked for members of other clubs to come to the meeting tomorrow, I was planning to take one of my remaining day's holidays and join you, dropping my wife off at the Mansfield Outlet on the way! But I was not going to know if this was possible until today, which is why I hadn't posted before, and unfortunately I've had to defer the holiday and so can't come.

I assume the crossing in question at Sansom Wood is the one we used on the way to the Start at the CSC Final which I remember as being completely overgrown both sides. Did Network Rail find out about our use of it and have blocked further use?

It seems like the old story of a publicly funded body operating in isolation on something, i.e blocking a recreational activity, even though it is completely opposite to the current government thinking that all of us should participate in these types of activities.

Regarding a potential fine for the New Year rail maintenance fiasco, yes, this would go to the Rail Regulator, the very body that funds Network Rail!

Good luck tomorrow, and let us know the outcome of the meeting.

[cookey]

Several members of NOC met with Paddy Tipping MP and the representative of Network Rail today at Blidworth to discuss the problems of obtaining permission to cross disused railway lines.

We had a very productive meeting, and we left with the feeling that the outcome could be favourable – not just to NOC but for all UK orienteering clubs. It is probably going to take some time, but the plan is that there will be further meetings organised between Network Rail and British Orienteering, and with the continued support of Paddy Tipping, with the aim of formulating a national access agreement.

Network Rail’s representative was very knowledgeable, understanding, and proactive in his approach to the problem.

We now need to be equally proactive in helping British Orienteering to support our side of these discussions.

Can ALL clubs please send a list to British Orienteering Head Office of the specific locations within their orienteering areas where there is (or could be) a need to cross disused railway lines.

This will help to demonstrate the extent of the problem.

I think we all considered that it had been time well spent today. We made a big step forward today and I now have renewed hope that it will lead to the result that we are all after.

[Gross]

Does this include Scotland or is it another national agreement masquarading as UK wide:)

[cookey]

It would include Scotland.

Can those people reading this please get the message to their clubs (and as many others as possible) to submit the information to Head Office.

Thanks

[Scott]

Surely all the fine will achieve is less money for network maintenance ?

You'll be pleased to know that it's all been explained.