Longshaw National

[LostOldTimer]

Anyone got agood idea what longshaw terrain is like?

Anyone able to post an older map?

[redpossum]

Longshaw is a really good mixture of mainly runnable terrain - natural deciduous woodland, open moorland, plantation, lots of rock and old quarry and mine workings. It is quite steep in parts and the moorland is quite exposed but not quite as high as Hathersage and Burbage across the road.

[LostOldTimer]

ANYONE INTENDING TO GO TOMORROW: CHECK OUT LATEST INFO ON THE DVO WEBSITE, DUE TO ADVERSE WEATHER...

Important safety information for those on Courses 1 - 10
Due to the recent heavy rainfall, the river in Padley Gorge has risen significantly. We have decided that it is now too dangerous for you to cross the river where originally intended after control 104 and immediately before the road crossing. Therefore, after control 104 there will be a taped route to a bridge across the river some 300m further down the valley and back up the other side of the river to the road crossing. Control 110 is on the other side of the road. Your time between control 104 and 110 will be subtracted from your overall time, but you must still punch both controls.
When do we know if cagoules are compulsory?
Why must people who wear one be disqualified.... as 'competitors take part at their own risk', therefore should be up to the individual whether to wear/carry one or not... and the organiseres should surely just advise?

[DM]

ANYONE INTENDING TO GO TOMORROW: CHECK OUT LATEST INFO ON THE DVO WEBSITE, DUE TO ADVERSE WEATHER...

Important safety information for those on Courses 1 - 10
Due to the recent heavy rainfall, the river in Padley Gorge has risen significantly. We have decided that it is now too dangerous for you to cross the river where originally intended after control 104 and immediately before the road crossing. Therefore, after control 104 there will be a taped route to a bridge across the river some 300m further down the valley and back up the other side of the river to the road crossing. Control 110 is on the other side of the road. Your time between control 104 and 110 will be subtracted from your overall time, but you must still punch both controls.
When do we know if cagoules are compulsory?
Why must people who wear one be disqualified.... as 'competitors take part at their own risk', therefore should be up to the individual whether to wear/carry one or not... and the organiseres should surely just advise?

The organisers are clearly thinking of your safety regarding the taped route. I certainly wouldn't want to try crossing Padley gorge in full flow, the best you could expect is a thorough soaking, the worst is to be washed away. For the same reason (safety of you) they may stipulate waterproofs. Decision on this will most likely be on the day so why not just take one along anyway.

Just stop and think how much adverse publicity our sport would get if someone was washed away/drowned or suffered from hypothermia.

[RogYoman]

The event was very well organised and the river crossing system worked brilliantly. Was a nice event all in all. The organisers did a good job.

[mikey]

Turned out a nice day in the end, so no need for cagoules.

Great car park, enjoyable courses (more so before than after the river crossing), a good day's orienteering.

[IanD]

Event seemed well organised, and the taped route to avoid a second wading of the river was absolutely the right decision.

However, having averted one risk that was deemed unacceptable, my course (4) then followed it up with a couple of legs which provided a significant risk of a broken leg and very little orienteering merit. I refer to the traverse of the boulder field below the cliff from 110 to 186 to 180. All three control sites were of orange standard, and there was no intricate detail on the map to navigate through. Just a horrible sloping mess of slippery rock.

110-186 at least offered a route choice, boulders all the way, or climb to the top of the cliff and then descend through a gap. I chose the up and down option, only to find impenetrable unmapped rhododendrons, which I had to deviate round. Staying below the cliff was a much faster option, but even in retrospect I cannot see how to tell this from the map.

186-180 was just nasty, technical difficulty 3, physical difficulty 5*.

The course would have been much better without control 186, then we could just have taken the safe option around the top of the cliff. Better still might have been to turn the course near control 11 (104), and go back through the terrain already visited, nothing after 104 presented much navigational challenge.

Despite sounded fairly negative, I would like to thank all those involved, even planner and controller, for their efforts. I certainly enjoyed the first half of my course, and I know how frustrating it can be when people complain after all your hard work. But on the other hand, if nobody says anything about bits which are unpleasant, dangerous, and of little orienteering merit, others may plan the same way.

Or perhaps others will feel that I am completely wrong and 110-186-180 was good planning. Feel free to shoot me down....

[RFM]

Thanks for the positive comments - my wife, Viv, is one of the co-organisers (along with Maragert Keeling) - and I had to go out in the torrential rain yesterday to tape the route across Padley Gorge!

Just a comment that this is the first time the National Trust have allowed us to cross the gorge and we're very grateful to them as it allowed many more courses to visit the Lawrencefield area.

It's amazing how many people don't read the final details in advance. We couldn't decide on whether cagoules were necessary until the morning of the event - the day before we were near to cancelling! At midday the parking field was covered in snow. By the end of today the sun was shining.

Unfortunately, a few people didn't want to go along with out requirement to carry whistles - I went out to bring back a young man who was finally recovered from a marsh after being found because he was able to blow his whistle. Thanks to the competitors who gave up their own runs to help someone in difficulty - it's not too dramatic to say they could have saved a life. Perhaps the issue was the novelty was that 'whistles are compulsory' was actually enforced!

John Duckworth as Planner and Mark Garside, Controller, put together some great courses which received widespread congratulations - and, of course, huge numbers of DVO members turned out to support the event - as so many clubs do every weekend. I'd like to thank those who gave up their runs on the day to ensure the event ran smoothly.

Thanks for coming - all 1014 of you!

Ranald

[Carnage Head]

It's amazing that some people "didn't want to go along with" the decision to make whistles compulsory - I wonder what their reasoning was - Too heavy? Not enough pockets?! It's good to see the ruling enforced now and again (the last time I remember it happening was the Caw Fell National Event earlier this year).

The event was very well organised from my point of view - even down to the choice of non-flooding car park! It's a shame that the river was in spate, but the taping appeared to be the only option. Perhaps a ten minute (or less) limit could have been put on the taped section, to try to stop excessive 'route planning' taking place in a leisurely walk to no.110? (But I know that some competitors in courses 1-10 may regularly orienteer at walking-ish pace, and perhaps it would have been unfair to them.)

The 110-186-180 section was indeed rocky and dangerous - but perhaps I stayed to far east in the 'boulder field' area - did the quickest competitors take more of a route through the 'rocky ground', where the going was safer?

Finally, perhaps the competitors who helped the boy out of the marsh could be named, so that people can know who they are, and so the competitors can have a reason to give for their 'rtd' status! (I wasn't one of the helpers - I'm not fishing for compliments!) (That's not to say that I ran past the boy - of course I would have helped if I had have encountered the situation...!)

All in all, a very enjoyable event, worth going to in tandem with the ShUOC chasing sprint.

[DM]

Really enjoyed today, course 2 had plenty of route choice, from 14-15 I thought I was the only one to plough up the slope but I'm sure others did aswell. The wooded area of padley gorge that the National Trust allowed the use of made the area much more useable.

110-186 was not a big issue, the rhodos were not inpenetrable as anyone who goes back there can see from the tracks through them and the route round the top and down was quicker than the boulder field.

I think John the planner have done an excellent job here. Rst of the DVO team also.

Really can't understand the prats who don't want to carry a whistle, if they were waist deep in a bog off route how do they think they would be found.

Having said I enjoyed the day, I enjoyed the run but not finding I mp'd as for once I did not check a control code. Correct control was only 50 m away!! I blame Bedders yelling at me again.

[Roger]

However, having averted one risk that was deemed unacceptable, my course (4) then followed it up with a couple of legs which provided a significant risk of a broken leg and very little orienteering merit. I refer to the traverse of the boulder field below the cliff from 110 to 186 to 180. All three control sites were of orange standard, and there was no intricate detail on the map to navigate through. Just a horrible sloping mess of slippery rock.

110-186 at least offered a route choice, boulders all the way, or climb to the top of the cliff and then descend through a gap. I chose the up and down option, only to find impenetrable unmapped rhododendrons, which I had to deviate round. Staying below the cliff was a much faster option, but even in retrospect I cannot see how to tell this from the map.

186-180 was just nasty, technical difficulty 3, physical difficulty 5*
....
Or perhaps others will feel that I am completely wrong and 110-186-180 was good planning. Feel free to shoot me down....

This doesn't constitute "shooting down", but on course 4 I was quickest from 110-186. During the timed-out walk to get to 110 I'd planned in detail the low route to 186, including exactly what I would see on the way. I had also decided to contour to 180, and had planned that in detail too.

But after leaving 110 I glanced at the tumble of boulders on the slope and made the snap decision to use the path at the top. I left the path where it left the break in slope, ran along the top briefly, saw that the boulderfield looked much less fierce (as mapped, in fact), and dropped to the intermittent path just above the mapped rhodo thicket and up it to the control, scarcely glancing at the unmapped rhodos on my left.

On 186-180 I was one second slower than Quentin. I don't know which way he went, but again, having seen what the terrain was like, I changed my plan and climbed to the top. Jenny Johnson had been with me at 110 and had the same two legs; I gained 20s to on 110-186, when we both went the same way, but over a minute on 186-180 when she went low. So there was another option! According to the planner, on 186-180 the going right down by the road was actually OK, but it was difficult to see this from the map and it would be a brave orienteer who started this uphill leg by dropping four or five contours for some terrain that may or may not be good.

So although I wouldn't say that these were brilliant legs, they offered an acceptable challenge and linked the course together logically; I've seen more dangerous and also much more boring.

[Mrs H]

very much enjoyed the event which i thought was very well organised. my course was good (apart from that very high barbed wire fence crossing ) and the walk in/out gave the chance for some socialising on the move which might otherwise have been missing in the exposed assembly field - infact enjoyed the whole weekend which is astonishing when you consider the conditions on saturday - but i must admit one run round Eccleshall Wood was enough for me in that rain - Cream Tea and Christmas Carols at Chatsworth seemed a more attractive proposition in the afternoon snow. well done everyone.

[redkite]

Enjoyed the whole weekend tremendously, other than the driving from South Wales.

On Saturday made a massive error as I was looking for a road when I should have been looking for a footpath. Big lesson to learn the sprint symbols. Interestingly, I had read the final details where this was is mentioned but just forgot on the day. Only me to blame. Great map, once I got into it, and great course. (didn't do the chase as was dragged off shopping).

I thought course 4 on Sunday had a bit of everything. the long walk to 110 was a shame, but unavoidable. From 110 to 186 took the top route and then cut down round the edge of the rhods onto the path and into the control. Thought there was plenty of route choice and do not know why there ar4e a few moaners on this forum. For the next control, as I didn't want to go back, I up simply climbed through the rocks, being careful where I put my feet.

Thereafter, a bit of a cross country through the open area but still enjoyed it.

Must give a big thanks to whoever it was who put the assembly area so close to a pub. Having an early start nean't no issues with getting a table.

Well done to everyone

[King Penguin]

re. reading of details in advance and course 4.....
The details said where the red line is bent the crossing point it goes through is compulsory.
After 180 at the end of the rocky traverse on course 4 the line to the next control bent down to a gate in the wall by the side stream, then went back up the side of the stream. I saw a number of people, none of whom I could name, go straight through a hole in the wall, and cut the corner which saved both distance and climb. I suspect 30 secs was saved by anyone who went direct. I must admit I was sorely tempted myself, but remembered the details and took the detour. Those who went straight had probably either not read the details or forgot this part in the heat of competition.
I don't know if there is a different landowner for this small part of the wood, but given the size of the hole in the wall above 180 the compulsory detour did look a little unnecessary.

[greywolf]

is there / will there be a routegadget so we can all have a look?