Night or Bright Orienteering?

[Gnitworp]

I refer you to all the posts on Page 2 of the 'Orienteering Today' thread which, thanks to me, digressed onto this subject.

[Mrs H]

Jolly good! this should save me from terminal boredom while I write a couple of things I've been putting off!

so what's it to be - purism or progress?

[candyman]

I think a lot of this comes down to individuals' motivation for orienteering and competing. If your motivation is for personal improvement and mastery of a skill you are not going to be particularly bothered about others running around with dwarf stars strapped to their foreheads, you will enjoy the challenge of getting around the course as best as you can with the equipment you have available. If your primary motivation is to win as often as possible then you will not be very happy about somebody else having an advantage of being able to create artificial daylight when you have to get by with a couple of stubby candles.

There is no requirement or rule that competitors must spend 100s or 1000s of pounds on a dwarf star lighting system, but if we want to maximise participation in the events perhaps the emphasis should be on participation, enjoyment and personal improvement rather than winning and overall victory? Perhaps prizes/pointscores should be based around improvement rather than winners? This way the equipment becomes less important and mastery of skills more important...

[graeme]

This way the equipment becomes less important and mastery of skills more important...

I find that "night" and "bright" require totally different skills. I simply can't run in terrain with a Petzl - navigational skill becomes irrelevant because its simply a standing-up competition. I don't care about finishing off the pace, but I don't like falling over, so I'll never enjoy Petzl-O.
[quote] Perhaps prizes/pointscores should be based around improvement rather than winners. [\quote]
I can think of few changes in Orienteering that would be more desirable. The "most-improved" awards I've won in various sports are invariably treasured, as they correspond to real achievement: pretty well every "winning" award in orienteering I have is tainted with guilt that I was running the wrong course - most of them come from events where I was ill, injured, or thrown off elite.

[pyrat]

I want one of these bad boys http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDeta ... goryID=106

1400 Lumens, oh, my, god.
£632.45 though.

Ouch, betty might have to wait for another day.
I love betty.

[EddieH]

Graeme has hit the nail on the head - running with inadequate light is either dangerous or pedestrian. I used to night O regularly long ago until my battery lost power and the light became impossible.
I then stopped because I considered the cost of equipment was too great for the few events I could use it at.
Then came the Deeside night league and suddenly there were enough events available for me to buy some new equipment.
It seems to me that night leagues are appearing in many parts of the country - if you have one near you I recommend the investment.

[fish]

I find that "night" and "bright" require totally different skills. I simply can't run in terrain with a Petzl - navigational skill becomes irrelevant because its simply a standing-up competition. I don't care about finishing off the pace, but I don't like falling over, so I'll never enjoy Petzl-O.

While this may be a fair point!! - if my memory serves me correctly you have been known to fall over doing hills on the grassy slope on the edge of arthurs seat - admittedly in the dark
I do wonder how i got round in the past with a petzl - both from the terrain perspective and the navigation perspective. But post-petzl liked the fact that night-O presented a different challenge - one that I still seemed best off avoiding!

[Gnitworp]

Ouch, betty might have to wait for another day.
I love betty.

If you do eventually get Betty, pyrat, can I ask you to keep her 'dipped' when you're approaching me running in the opposite direction. If not, I will sue you for the retinal damage my eyes sustain.

[graeme]

if my memory serves me correctly

Ah, memories...

M21 I simply can't run in terrain with a Petzl
M35 I simply can't run in terrain
M45 I simply can't run
so it looks like ...
M55 I simply can't ?

[Gnitworp]

I want one of these bad boys http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDeta ... goryID=106

1400 Lumens, oh, my, god.
£632.45 though.

Ouch, betty might have to wait for another day.
I love betty.

There has never been a world championship in night orienteering. I'm wondering whether 'Betty' and her progeny are the reason why there is not and cannot be.

[Big Jon]

Your choice:
Petzl = night navigation exercise.
Halogen = night orienteering.

[Jon Brooke]

Candyman,

"Perhaps prizes/pointscores should be based around improvement rather than winners?"

Prizes? - Have I been going to the wrong events?

Nice idea about basing results on improvement (and maybe group hugs afterwards?), but just not worth the bother. Trouble is, when you try to organise events on that basis, people who want to win cheat. For example, in cross country MTB racing, the novice category is always won by someone who should be doing the sport class, the sports is always won by someone who should be riding expert etc etc. In any case, if as you say, someone's motivation is for mastery of the skills etc - then they wouldn't be bothered about winning anyway and if they are the competitive type then they will just buy the stuff they need. Sorry, but I think that all of these "lets just level the playing field" pleas are really just "if only the rules were written to favour me, I could be a winner" pleas in disguise.

Also, this stuff about expensive lamps is tosh really. Bought my Tiga lamp a good few years ago, for I think about £70 and to start with used a lead acid battery, which was heavy, but only cost £10. So there we are, expensive if you don't have the money, but for most people probably the same cost as the fuel to get to a couple of events. And anyway, nearly all of the night events I've done have been much cheaper than normal daytime events so there is a saving there. Admittedly you can spend more on a lamp, but I think there is a good argument that doing that would waste your money. My lamp has 2 settings and I actually run with it on the lower setting a lot of the time as I then have some peripheral vision of large features. Can't see that there would be any advantage to having a brighter lamp.

[Gnitworp]

Halogen = night orienteering.

LED, HID = ?

[Knee Deep Mud!]

Well, I've come second on my course at a southern nights, and first on my (short) course at the British nights using only a two AA cell mini maglight for illumination on both occasions. The advantage of having some natural dark adaption of the eyes means brightest isn't necessarily best.

The only reason I would want a 10000W halogen lamp is to get my own back on the ~@£$%^^s who insist on shining their 10000W head torches directly into my face as they run past during an event.

[Gross]

I remember Big Jon lending me his Petzl at Beecraigs some years ago... he was using a big Silva job. He came past me on the run from last control & I was using his light as Petzl was crap... then the wee S***e switched the light off & I went flying in the dark:)