British Junior Champs
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rob f - yellow
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Re: Representation
QM wrote:Please remind me - how do I find out who my regional rep is?
It's up to each region to decide who represents them, but I think it's usually their chairman. Ours in EAOA is Lyn West (SOS). The other representatives present at last September's Council (the most recent minutes on the website) were John Woodall (EM), Stephen Richards (NW), Simon Greenwood (SE), Roger Hargreaves (SW), Russ Fauset (WM) and Ian McMillan (YH).
If you're not in one of these regions, have a look at your region's website (index here) for a relevant contact.
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MarkC - orange
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Serves me right for not reading everything first - Andrew Kelly has given a more accurate list on the AGM thread. Add Patrick Smyth (NE/BAOC) and Phil Jenkins (WOA/SBOC) to the above, and replace Ian McMillan with Jo Thornley (YH/AIRE).
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MarkC - orange
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Robin has posted his piece about the BJOC on the BOF web page and it makes interesting reading - I feel at last someone is being honest and open. So despite Awk rubishing my informant - they were right, it was always about funding. The FCC option sound a promising way to get out of it - but ofcourse the BOC date is lost leaving the juniors in the middle of the exam season (as has been usual in the recent past). I notice that the date of BOC is still provisional in the fixtures list. Hows about moving a combined BOC back to the weekend of April 9/10th and swapping all those regional badge events over to the May date. Or you could make it the following weekend and just take the whole damn week off - the Midlands to Newquay is very do-able This will be two weeks after the Jk ( as has happened in the past) away from exams and still in the Easter holidays for a good number of people - again I know things are different in Scotland - when are their Easter holidays? it would be great if they were on holiday then as they have the furthest to travel. As for the FCC final - most of these people can travel independently and there are plenty of trains and cheap planes to that part of the S.E.
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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Yeah, it does seem like it was all about funding right from the start. They've tried to make it seem better by saying the juniors need to see elites performing, but we could just go and watch anyway....but hten i suppose there's a point in us going if we are going to compete too. even so, we can't get away from teh fact we are only there to get the money, if the money could be obtained in the original way nobody would care about juniors seeing elites perform.
- *Rachel*
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Have to agree with you here. And how much extra money are the juniors bringing to the party?? And how is that funding going to be used?? And how much will the entry fees be?? What is this Development Plan?? Where can we see it?? I really hope that the chief organiser of WC 2005 doesn't make as much of a hash of it as he did for WOC 1999:)
At one point there were discussions about holding a Commonwealth Championship alongside the WC. I was against this in principle but because it seemed to provide a way into the Commonwealth Games I took the view the SOA should support the idea. Comments from Robin Field & Tim Pugh suggested they would support / pursue the idea of this Championship as it would help them secure FUNDING for WC... seems the juniors helped instead & the idea of a Commonwealth Championship seems to have been forgotten.........
At one point there were discussions about holding a Commonwealth Championship alongside the WC. I was against this in principle but because it seemed to provide a way into the Commonwealth Games I took the view the SOA should support the idea. Comments from Robin Field & Tim Pugh suggested they would support / pursue the idea of this Championship as it would help them secure FUNDING for WC... seems the juniors helped instead & the idea of a Commonwealth Championship seems to have been forgotten.........
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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I repeat - the motivation behind the proposal to incorporate the BJOC into the World Cup was not about money. I should know - I was the one who initiated the proposal.
Last Easter it had already been agreed that the BJOC was going to be separated out when dates/venues etc weren't right. We (Planning & Development) had wanted it for 2004 (cold, wet, hillsides in Northumberland in March) but that had fallen by the wayside. Instead, 2005, with the inappropriate date/venue combination already in place, looked to be the first year that this would need implementing. At the same time we were considering possible alternatives, I was approached by Chris Robinson (WC development) asking for help with suggestions for what would be good as a development focus for WC. I suggested to her that if the WC could host the British Juniors, and make it the culmination of a development project, then that would be a great opportunity - raising the profile of the juniors, racing in the same forest etc. as the elite etc etc. It also meant that the British Champs could be a selection race, and incorporate FCC finals etc, all the t hings that Penhale couldn't offer. We also discussed other ideas, but this seemed to be the most attractive as it direcly benefited current young orienteers, including them in the exciting international scene rather than with us boring old fogeys. Tim Pugh (WC co-ordinator) was then contacted, and he and I discussed the issues via email. He agreed that the BJOC idea was a go-er in principle, and the proposal was worked up about the time I left BOF.
Whilst there are financial benefits tothe elite in this package, it was not the motivation behind the proposal. If anything, my only financial consideration was that it had a good chance of making junior entries cheaper.
The idea that the juniors were being sacrificed on the altar of World Cup needs is frankly nonsense. Nor are the juniors 'bringiing' money. What one has is a synergy by which both events benefit from each other.
Andrew
Last Easter it had already been agreed that the BJOC was going to be separated out when dates/venues etc weren't right. We (Planning & Development) had wanted it for 2004 (cold, wet, hillsides in Northumberland in March) but that had fallen by the wayside. Instead, 2005, with the inappropriate date/venue combination already in place, looked to be the first year that this would need implementing. At the same time we were considering possible alternatives, I was approached by Chris Robinson (WC development) asking for help with suggestions for what would be good as a development focus for WC. I suggested to her that if the WC could host the British Juniors, and make it the culmination of a development project, then that would be a great opportunity - raising the profile of the juniors, racing in the same forest etc. as the elite etc etc. It also meant that the British Champs could be a selection race, and incorporate FCC finals etc, all the t hings that Penhale couldn't offer. We also discussed other ideas, but this seemed to be the most attractive as it direcly benefited current young orienteers, including them in the exciting international scene rather than with us boring old fogeys. Tim Pugh (WC co-ordinator) was then contacted, and he and I discussed the issues via email. He agreed that the BJOC idea was a go-er in principle, and the proposal was worked up about the time I left BOF.
Whilst there are financial benefits tothe elite in this package, it was not the motivation behind the proposal. If anything, my only financial consideration was that it had a good chance of making junior entries cheaper.
The idea that the juniors were being sacrificed on the altar of World Cup needs is frankly nonsense. Nor are the juniors 'bringiing' money. What one has is a synergy by which both events benefit from each other.
Andrew
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awk - god
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and unfortunately the development element of the plan was rejected for not having enough substance on junior development of the sport in the UK. However, we were awarded a substantial grant on the condition that we re-presented a separate development plan.
Robin Field
More lucrative than the commonwealth champs option Eh!
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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Mrs H. Some interesting ideas. However, April 9/10 weekend is term time for most of England and Wales as well as (presumably) Scotland.
If you held on the weekend after Easter (Apr 2/3), I suspect you would get as many howls of complaints, just from different people.
If you held on the weekend after Easter (Apr 2/3), I suspect you would get as many howls of complaints, just from different people.
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awk - god
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Coming late to this discussion, I must admit to being confused. I went through the junior ranks and am now in the British senior squad. Whilst it may be nice for some juniors to have their own british champs, it cannot happen for one simple fact - juniors can't drive! I can see the look on the faces of my parents when asked to drive me (from deepest darkest North) to the far south for a weekend in which they get nothing out of it, a few weekends after they have driven to Penhale sands! They would probably do the fair thing and go to neither, and I wouldn't blame them.
It is sad that the british elites are seperate too these days. No one sees the elite competition - as a result fewer and fewer elites care about the competition these days. The solution - one british champs every May, used for jwoc selection, fcc final, senior selection etc and on a decent area for all! 'Decent' can include the likes of Star Posts, Pembry, Merther Mawyr etc. Well planned courses in most areas can be tricky. We run the JK and world cup races in these sorts of areas all the time, why not BEOC?What is the problem with this plan? I really don't know! May is exam time of year, but do you see many students missing the bristol weekend (selection race for various things) - no, they make the time as it is important.
It is sad that the british elites are seperate too these days. No one sees the elite competition - as a result fewer and fewer elites care about the competition these days. The solution - one british champs every May, used for jwoc selection, fcc final, senior selection etc and on a decent area for all! 'Decent' can include the likes of Star Posts, Pembry, Merther Mawyr etc. Well planned courses in most areas can be tricky. We run the JK and world cup races in these sorts of areas all the time, why not BEOC?What is the problem with this plan? I really don't know! May is exam time of year, but do you see many students missing the bristol weekend (selection race for various things) - no, they make the time as it is important.
- What is going on?
you see the bristol weekend is at my limit, i.e its just before exams so yes i can make time, But anytime after the first weekend in may and theres no chance,
My uni exams are late may this year,
If i was still at school(which many people in my age group are) 14th of may is the first exam.
I dont think orienteering is more important than education,
hence we shouldnt say "yeh very well your stressed with exams but hey come to this event this weekend or you wont get selected, by the way its the day before your english exam and its a plane journey away"
Anyways does it not make more sense to perhaps consult the juniors and parents?
In my opinion The british this year was to early, and should, to help juniors get to events etc be kept the same with there being no seperate junior champs. Instead, Combine the FCC final with the british - have it the bank holiday may weekend, juniors can get to thier final and parents can watch there children run in the selection races and compete themselves.
Whats the benefits of a seperate junior champs? From what i gather a seperate junior champs is trying to make it more like BEOC - i do agree that there should be a competivite element to junior orienteering but not eliteist. I think you would see those who are new to the sport/not as keen who would usually go to BOC as it is a big event, shy away further depeleting numbers.
Just my 2 cents
Drew
My uni exams are late may this year,
If i was still at school(which many people in my age group are) 14th of may is the first exam.
I dont think orienteering is more important than education,
hence we shouldnt say "yeh very well your stressed with exams but hey come to this event this weekend or you wont get selected, by the way its the day before your english exam and its a plane journey away"
Anyways does it not make more sense to perhaps consult the juniors and parents?
In my opinion The british this year was to early, and should, to help juniors get to events etc be kept the same with there being no seperate junior champs. Instead, Combine the FCC final with the british - have it the bank holiday may weekend, juniors can get to thier final and parents can watch there children run in the selection races and compete themselves.
Whats the benefits of a seperate junior champs? From what i gather a seperate junior champs is trying to make it more like BEOC - i do agree that there should be a competivite element to junior orienteering but not eliteist. I think you would see those who are new to the sport/not as keen who would usually go to BOC as it is a big event, shy away further depeleting numbers.
Just my 2 cents
Drew
Last edited by Drew on Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's all about next year
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Drew - junior moderator
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well its not exactly proven,
I'm going to the detrement of my work.
what im simply saying, yes your correct but to what extent you should you expect JUNIORS to deal with pressure of exams with the added worry of Selection races intermitent with exams.
I'm going to the detrement of my work.
what im simply saying, yes your correct but to what extent you should you expect JUNIORS to deal with pressure of exams with the added worry of Selection races intermitent with exams.
It's all about next year
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Drew - junior moderator
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