Seeing as nopesport is busy putting the O world to rights why don't we sort out people entering events late.
Having done entries for several badge/national events it is noticeable that about half the entries tend to arrive on or after the closing date. Not very helpful for the organiser having to get maps printed, prepare start lists etc...
Is it really too much to ask for competitors to be organised enough to know what they intend doing a month in advance?
Is a £1 late entry fee enough? I think some events in Norway double the entry fee after the closing date.
Late entries
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Having done entries for several badge/national events it is noticeable that about half the entries tend to arrive on or after the closing date.
surely if you know that then just put the deadline date a few days earlier and accept the ones that arrive a day or two late
'great athletes come back from great setbacks' - Brendan Foster
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Wattok - [nope] cartel
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i also know that people always leave entering till the last possible moment, so either you put the CD earlier, and then the entries all come in by the actual CD you would like, or you do stick on an extra fiver or something toget folk to pull their fingers out.
possibly doing something like not taking peoples money out of their account till the CD is one way of doing it (tricky i know) so that people don't feel like their money is just making someone else interest (cos you make so much interest on £10 -£20 anyway!! )
otherwise, just punish them and those that enter late have to park further away, or have an extra 1km on the course
possibly doing something like not taking peoples money out of their account till the CD is one way of doing it (tricky i know) so that people don't feel like their money is just making someone else interest (cos you make so much interest on £10 -£20 anyway!! )
otherwise, just punish them and those that enter late have to park further away, or have an extra 1km on the course
'Grab it by the balls'
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the duncan - diehard
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yeah in sweden there is a late entry fee, my flat mate has got to pay over 1000kr of them. ha ha, stupid [nope]
I think that late entries should be accepted, but only for a while, up to a week or so before, and charge them loads of extra money which could go towards youth development schemes...
If a course is full then thats there problem, run somthing else. Of they could start before normal people in the helpers block and have to copy up a their own map or somthing. possibly onto an old version of the map awswell, whilst its raining.
I think that late entries should be accepted, but only for a while, up to a week or so before, and charge them loads of extra money which could go towards youth development schemes...
If a course is full then thats there problem, run somthing else. Of they could start before normal people in the helpers block and have to copy up a their own map or somthing. possibly onto an old version of the map awswell, whilst its raining.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Guess what I voted ? Do as I say.... not as I do !
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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surely if everyone went militant about not accepting late entries, everyone would start being a bit more organised about entering, i know i would (i have managed to forgot to enter for the et )
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samsonite - class clown
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Re: Late entries
Godders wrote:Having done entries for several badge/national events it is noticeable that about half the entries tend to arrive on or after the closing date. Not very helpful for the organiser having to get maps printed, prepare start lists etc...
I was warned about this before the first badge event I organised, but I couldn't believe how much of a problem it was until seeing it first hand - on the closing date itself I was worried that the event would lose money because we had so few entries.
Pragmatically, Wattok's approach seems to be common practice, and for a badge event I would set the closing date as two weeks before the event and not fix the number of maps to order until a week later. The people that really annoy me are those who try to enter by phone or email the day before the event, as if we haven't got other things to worry about by then!
The downside to this is that many people expect to be able to enter after the closing date so that it becomes a habit. And until this mindset changes, it's hard to be strict and turn away half your potential runners...
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MarkC - orange
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Having handled the entries for Badge and National events (sorry BOF, can't get used to those Regional events), I'd say it was a difficult call. There are people out there who are:
1. uncertain about whether they can make an event (being sent abroad to lie for your country/company/university).
2. forgetful
3. terminally lazy
If you decide to be selectively lenient, it's a case of how to differentiate between these categories - orienteers are a generally literate bunch, so they come up with really plausible excuses - some of those I got would not have looked out of place in the columns of the London Review of Books.
The map printing/bagging seems to be the critical factor. It's probably different for an event in the SE with (almost) assured good numbers. Print lots and if they don't enter in advance they will probably turn up on the day (and pay more). Must be more difficult in Scotland -- see Gross, I am not entirely unsympathetic.
1. uncertain about whether they can make an event (being sent abroad to lie for your country/company/university).
2. forgetful
3. terminally lazy
If you decide to be selectively lenient, it's a case of how to differentiate between these categories - orienteers are a generally literate bunch, so they come up with really plausible excuses - some of those I got would not have looked out of place in the columns of the London Review of Books.
The map printing/bagging seems to be the critical factor. It's probably different for an event in the SE with (almost) assured good numbers. Print lots and if they don't enter in advance they will probably turn up on the day (and pay more). Must be more difficult in Scotland -- see Gross, I am not entirely unsympathetic.
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i-pod - white
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Late Entries
Having taken entries for the last 2 November Classics I can only agree with thoser who say about orienteers not being able to get their act together. Whenever you set the entry date, be it 1, 2 or 3 weeks bgeforehand, there will always be some who expect it as right to be able to enter. I think the surcharge should be more than £1 as the work involved in doing Entries is very time consuming. most people, like me have a full time job as well! Problems are also caused by people expecting to be able to start near their mates although they've entered separately and are from different clubs/regions. Only people who've done the entries fully apperciate the hassle caused by the competitors. Some people will even ring up the morning before the event and complain if their course is full. Because of the nature of forest access , and number limits,wwe only offer Wayfarers which does not always satisfy the very late entrant.
For those who perpetually enter late I say.....do entries for an event yourself, then you'll know what it feels like!
For those who perpetually enter late I say.....do entries for an event yourself, then you'll know what it feels like!
- dalarna
Entries on Day.
I think that pre-entering is a thing of the past, and for the unorganised among us its a stress.
It goes like this:
All entries are on the day. You enter with your SI 6 Card which holds all your data. SI6 Compulsory for joining bof.
Laser printing available at registration, from ocad / condes courses.
Issues with start draw, either have a cut off point where the draw is done, or it is done constantly throughtout the entry process at each new entry.
If entries on day not permitted:
Entries online - SI information translated into an "online SI" which you use for all event entried. Enter with this, and the cost is charged either to your bof account, or club account. No manual labour in this system at all.
Single entry system used throughout british orienteering.
-ally
I think that pre-entering is a thing of the past, and for the unorganised among us its a stress.
It goes like this:
All entries are on the day. You enter with your SI 6 Card which holds all your data. SI6 Compulsory for joining bof.
Laser printing available at registration, from ocad / condes courses.
Issues with start draw, either have a cut off point where the draw is done, or it is done constantly throughtout the entry process at each new entry.
If entries on day not permitted:
Entries online - SI information translated into an "online SI" which you use for all event entried. Enter with this, and the cost is charged either to your bof account, or club account. No manual labour in this system at all.
Single entry system used throughout british orienteering.
-ally
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pyrat - [nope] cartel
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Sweden has a very nice entry system. Its all done on the internet. Organisers upload their event info onto "Klubben Online". (Every race is up for this year). You sign in via your clubs homepage, put in the password, select who you are, click on the race, select you course, add any other details, e.g. camping and stuff for oringen, click ENTER, adn your done. the club picks up the bill and then charges irina for it at the end of the year. if your late, you pay more. if you miss the late entry window you then have to run one of the open courses, 9 avaiable.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Entry Closing Dates are a real bug bear of mine! I admit I'm one of those people whose entry probably arrives the day after the actual closing date. I appreciate organisers/entry peoples thoughts but in my defence I'd say being at uni and having to organise transport and possibly accommodation for events isn't always easy, as I'd prefer to have everything organised before I enter so I don't waste entry fee. With todays modern map prepartion being a few days late 3 weeks before the event shouldn't be a problem, but certainly ringing up in the last week or even on the day without a fabulous reason is really poor and should be 'punished'. Therefore, think I'm suggesting a bit of a distinguishment between people just missing dates and clearly lazy people possibly playing the system.
- Little Rob
Having just organised SOL1 this month, then my experience was that we found a large number of entries arrriving in the two or three days following the closing date (which was 13 days before the race).
Maps were printed on the Monday before the event, with 10-20% surplus on each course, and by the Thursday we had to print more for all the most popular courses because of the volume of VERY late entries, still with the intention of providing a 10-20% surplus for EOD.
On the day, despite printing all these extra maps three days earlier, the most popular courses sold out this surplus within half an hour of registration opening. Presumably most of these people could have pre-entered but chose not to.
My view was (and is) that this gave everyone a fair chance to get a run - we took entries up to the last minute - involving some of us in a fair amount of work - and still offered EOD. Anyone turning up at the start of registration looking for a run still got one, and in total we only had to divert two people from their preferred course to a different one, so I think we got it just about right.
To do this we did of course have to take the cost risk for the event in printing extra maps - the problem here is that this cost can be covered more easily the more people pre-enter relative to the budgeted number.
I think this means that the later you try to enter then the greater the risk that the event has not been able to afford to print an extra map on the off chance you might turn up. In my view then OCAD and Condes mean that it should be straightforward to accept entries up to a week in advance (although for other reasons then it is worthwhile having an early closing date to know numbers, and so a late entry fee is justified). However, if you try and enter later, in the week immediately preceding the event, then I think you have to take your chances!
In the meantime then giving all my time to dealing with organising things for SOL1 and making all the adjustments needed for the high numbers of late entries means that I have forgotten to enter SOL2 and the Elite Test by the closing date - I am off to grovel to CLYDE and to Gross and hope that telling them a week in advance means that they still have time to print me a map, even if they charge me a late fee!!
Maps were printed on the Monday before the event, with 10-20% surplus on each course, and by the Thursday we had to print more for all the most popular courses because of the volume of VERY late entries, still with the intention of providing a 10-20% surplus for EOD.
On the day, despite printing all these extra maps three days earlier, the most popular courses sold out this surplus within half an hour of registration opening. Presumably most of these people could have pre-entered but chose not to.
My view was (and is) that this gave everyone a fair chance to get a run - we took entries up to the last minute - involving some of us in a fair amount of work - and still offered EOD. Anyone turning up at the start of registration looking for a run still got one, and in total we only had to divert two people from their preferred course to a different one, so I think we got it just about right.
To do this we did of course have to take the cost risk for the event in printing extra maps - the problem here is that this cost can be covered more easily the more people pre-enter relative to the budgeted number.
I think this means that the later you try to enter then the greater the risk that the event has not been able to afford to print an extra map on the off chance you might turn up. In my view then OCAD and Condes mean that it should be straightforward to accept entries up to a week in advance (although for other reasons then it is worthwhile having an early closing date to know numbers, and so a late entry fee is justified). However, if you try and enter later, in the week immediately preceding the event, then I think you have to take your chances!
In the meantime then giving all my time to dealing with organising things for SOL1 and making all the adjustments needed for the high numbers of late entries means that I have forgotten to enter SOL2 and the Elite Test by the closing date - I am off to grovel to CLYDE and to Gross and hope that telling them a week in advance means that they still have time to print me a map, even if they charge me a late fee!!
- Jon X
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there is a common conception (often substantiated on event fliers) that entries will be accepted if they are postmarked up until the closing date. thus the competitors cannot be at fault or penalised for putting in an entry at this stage.
in addition, many/most events in the uk state a late entry surcharge. straightforward. if people want to enter after the closing date and are prepared to pay the surcharge then that's up to them. organisers stop moaning. if you think the surcharge is too little, put it up. if there are no maps left and it was clear that there was a limited number of (late) entries then it's the competitor's lookout and they should shut up.
if people are putting in late entries w'out paying the stated late entry fee, don't let them start till they've paid.
well that was all straightforward within the current situation. in an ideal world, a complete eod system could be ideal from a competitors point of view (caveat: something to do w queues, something else to do w computers) tho' probably far from ideal for the organisers. the swedish standard national internet-based entry system is really pretty good actually.
in addition, many/most events in the uk state a late entry surcharge. straightforward. if people want to enter after the closing date and are prepared to pay the surcharge then that's up to them. organisers stop moaning. if you think the surcharge is too little, put it up. if there are no maps left and it was clear that there was a limited number of (late) entries then it's the competitor's lookout and they should shut up.
if people are putting in late entries w'out paying the stated late entry fee, don't let them start till they've paid.
well that was all straightforward within the current situation. in an ideal world, a complete eod system could be ideal from a competitors point of view (caveat: something to do w queues, something else to do w computers) tho' probably far from ideal for the organisers. the swedish standard national internet-based entry system is really pretty good actually.
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ic - yellow
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