FCC Format

[HOCOLITE]

I think it was on this thread that someone said has the FCC had it's day (it was until i split this discussion off- moderator). I've been thinking on this. With the current format it is beginning to 'leak'. The reason I think is the short space it is squeezed into and the distances of events. The problems are created by that great external force exams. Apologies to the Scots but I don't know their system and time scales, but in England and Wales, those eligible for FCC are taking GCSE, A/S and A2. These have exams in January for the latter two and course work deadlines usually around March/April for all, therefore pressures are increasing, it's fine to pop to an event on a Sunday but when the events are about every other Sunday and take up a weekend, they become too much.

An answer, well thats more difficult, but maybe a regional series from September to March, with the top 'X' to a final, maybe as late as July. First question what is a region, not perhaps as small as BOF regions, maybe North/South or East/West England with Scotland using SOL. It might reduce the travelling and encourage more juniors to continue in the sport and perhaps take off some of the pressures. Problems - JK and British are part of current series. Could they still be part? I think yes but points to regional tables.

There might be a possibility for something for the younger juniors too on this level. Maybe the British or JK would be the final.

I believe the kids love and need the competition but are feeling the pressures from outside, more are giving up and may not return to the sport and then we will have less and less 21's.

I think this years FCC final will be depleted due it's timimg, as there are University exams to consider as well as the school exams, for some despite flights the final constitutes a full weekend including Friday night. Nothing is ideal but perhaps some change is needed. It would be interesting to here what the youngsters think, as I as a parent can only surmise and observe.

[Gross]

[quote="HOCOLITE"]

, but maybe a regional series from September to March, with the top 'X' to a final, maybe as late as July. .

quote]

You can't really have regional events in the Scottish off-season... it's dark, it's wet & could even be a bit snowy. And now a days time is even more precious as the capercaille sit their forest exams in springtime & we can host events that clash with junior exams but no way to clash with capercaille exams:)

[rocky]

i think this is a very interesting point. i'm inclined to agree with you about it being too squashed, with the whole thing over between march and may.

An answer, well thats more difficult, but maybe a regional series from September to March, with the top 'X' to a final, maybe as late as July. First question what is a region, not perhaps as small as BOF regions, maybe North/South or East/West England with Scotland using SOL. It might reduce the travelling and encourage more juniors to continue in the sport and perhaps take off some of the pressures. Problems - JK and British are part of current series. Could they still be part? I think yes but points to regional tables.

this sounds far too vague and complicated, and panders to the needs of the lower levels of the competition. for me the best thing about FCC races was that they were a series of races all over the country which were guaranteed to have all the best runners in the country to run against. split it into regions and this will be watered down.

i like the idea of a longer season though, but i cannot see any reason why it should run september-march, with the complications this brings about due to changes in age classes. i think the existing format came about as a way of being a spring board to the JWOC selection races, and to ensure JWOC- hopefuls would get enough good racing before the summer. one could argue that this is no longer neccessary, since international competition is so much easier to get now than it was 8 years ago.

what about a junior cup competition which counts the best races over the WHOLE season: something like

March: Short Race, Nat Event
April: JK/British
May: British & JWOC selection races (open)
June: JIRC (open for 18s)
August: one day of multiday
Sept: Nat Event and Short Race
Oct: Final weekend: have to qualify for this.

I think this years FCC final will be depleted due it's timimg, as there are University exams to consider as well as the school exams, for some despite flights the final constitutes a full weekend including Friday night. Nothing is ideal but perhaps some change is needed.

don't follow that logic. FCC final has been the first weekend in May for as long as i can remember.

so travelling to the best terrrain in britain takes time. fine, take some work with you, read in the car/plane (wouldn't reccommend it if you're driving), in the youth hostel. or plan it into your revision schedule.

[Rookie]

The FCC races are the only races that have all (well most) of the top juinors competing, splitting into regions would destroy this, there would be very few chances to see how you compare to the best. It could also be problematic for students who are still members of their home clubs in different regions - might mean more travelling for them (or could run for the uni club if there is one but this would mean travelling for events in the holidays).

A whole season cup comp might be interesting but I still think the current FCC format draws the top competitors (but not the very top), the middle champs had low turnout at the weekend, they probably would've had more if they were an FCC race.

The Future Champions Cup isn't really an event series aimed at increasing the number of junior orienteers.

[Doug T]

i think the format of the fcc works well: scoring points in set races to reach one final event.

but i agree with rocky it could work better if it was spread from march to september .
i think as a junior that it is impossible to aim to be at race fitness for all the fcc races this year.you have to prioritise and aim to peak for a few and then the final.
if they were more spread out then it would also make it easier for people to get to more races.

if it was organised like this then obviously the final would not be jwoc selection which is a bit of a negative because ii is an event which creates good pressure and atmoshphere for competitors.
this would leave a need for an event where 18's and 20's could compete against each other.

i dont think changing the fcc will help keep juniors in the sport.
it would be very difficult to get a system that suited everyone.

[Dave]

I think spreading it out over a whole season is worth considering but then would JWOC selection have to go onto JK or BOC? If so, would this take the spark out of the Final? because then there wouldn't be much to gain by winning it comared to the JK, where you could have the chance to run at JWOC.
I definitely think it's a bad idea to split it into regions because then if selectors have to look at 'all known form' they cannot compare runners with one another because they won't be competing at the same events!

[Babybel]

i think it depends on what the purpose of the fcc is. in my opinion it's aimed at the top juniors + isnt aimed to increase junior participation. in the case of juniors wishing to be selected for JWOC the choice between school exams/orienteering is a matter of comitment. those dedicated enough will make the effort. in conclusion i dont see any problems with how its run.

[Rookie]

i don't think chosing between exams and orienteering is a "matter of comitment" - you shouldn't have to. Yes, JWOC selection races need to be now but after the FCC Final major junior competitions should be avoided - eg. JIRC at the end of June right in the middle of A level exams, why not have it a week later? (rasied that last year when I couldn't make it and only response was Scots don't like events in their hols and it's fair as every region loses people)

There is no choice between exams and racing - you can't do a race if you have an exam on the same day or even lots over the next couple of days.

I like the FCC series and I think everyone who competes in it does - it is the aim for the season. I'm sure you can be at peak fitness for March to May, the only advantage of a whole year series would be that injury would be less of an issue, you might miss one race but not lots. UK Cup is over a similar period of time

[Kitch]

Baybybel talks about it being a matter of commitment - There is a world of difference between the pressures you can put on senior athletes and those that you should put on juniors.

I don't think any junior should be expected to choose between commitment to education and commitment to orienteering. Orienteering should fit around their education it should not be a matter of choosing - causing stress. Youngsters should enjoy their participation, always.
As a senior you have greater control and responsibility for the choices and pressures you create in your life.

A thread about the poor attendance at the Junior British Middle Champs is probably explained by the fact that juniors have been asked to travel to opposite ends of the country on consecutive weekends in the run up to exams. Forest of Dean last weekend Oban next weekend - most have chosen Oban (nice choice).

I think Hocolite has made a couple of great suggestions - Spread FCC qualifying it over a bit more time, regionalise it.
In the qualifying events perhaps require a number of regional scores over the winter(3 maybe) and one or two national scores (eg JK or BOC) with more points on offer at the national score.

One issue is that people change age class in January

[HOCOLITE]

I didn't initially think about the change of class in Jan, but when I did, it occurred to me that most juniors who are changing class tend to run up in the Autumn for experience so it probably wouldn't make too much difference.

[awk]

One small correction: I didn't say FCC had had its day. I asked whether it had!

Interesting points Hocolite. The first FCC was organised around regional rounds. It went to a national series because the competition wasn't really strong enough, and the main aim (then at least) was to provide some top class races for the best juniors cutting across M/W18-20.

As to it being the JWOC selection race: that's a recent addition. The first few were certainly not, but still managed to attract great fields. That may be because there were prizes etc, but also I think because juniors recognised the need for that sort of competition.

I'm not enough in touch now to know whether any of these are still valid.

[m]

I think the races through the spring are ok and provided you prioritise and organise yourself you can go to the ones you want. The last ones are still a little bit before exams so leaves you a bit of time to revise.

I think the main problem is the timing of the final. It is in the middle of or very close to exams for most people. In addition to that it is quite a long way before JWOC. Most other coutries select their team much closer to the competition time, can we not do that too?

[ruth]

re regional rounds, i think that this would be unfair. as much as i love the southwest, i don't think i'd like to race here all season then be expected to perform in much more technically demanding terrain for a final. This idea would favour people who live in the lakes or scotland. I am more than happy to travel to decent terrain for fcc races as it sets you up well for the final and for jwoc (and is generally more fun!), but wouldn't like to be told that i'm not allowed to leave the southwest until may!

[CHS]

I enjoy the FCC series it gives a very good target which is not dependant on one race. The races are well attended so I know I'll see people to race against/ chat to. I think most seem to agree that regional rounds are not appropiate.

The travelling involved is significant but my Parents enjoy the excuse to go to events they may not have otherwise bothered with and always come home saying if only I could run on this terrain every weekend... The other thing is often my regional squad ties up its training with FCC/Selection races so parents don't always have to go.

I would also agree with what Doug and Rookie have said about the spread of races as well but more with a view to life outside O!

[helen]

The travelling involved is significant but my Parents enjoy the excuse to go to events they may not have otherwise bothered with and always come home saying if only I could run on this terrain every weekend...

I don't mind the travelling to be honest, even around exam times. You can revise on long car journeys quite easily and I personally find that I like to get away for the weekend sometimes. Its great to be able to go up to Scotland or the Lakes, or Yorkshire or wherever for an event on completely different terrain from what we get down here in the South West.

I also think it wouldnt be a very good idea to spread the races out. Having a peak season means that you can periodise training to peak for the main season, but if they were more spread out this would be much harder to do. Also for me as an athlete, I have to periodise the athletics seasons with the main orienteering seasons but they do fit very well at the moment!