Safety Checks using SI

[stodge]

We had a strange incident at birches valley on Sunday that caused us some thought.

Whilst downloading the start and check boxes to see who started ( safety check) an SI card that was not listed on the BOF / SI database, which also did not have a corresponding entry / safety slip, was found to have punched the start….
Start time 11:47:36
This card never downloaded.
Next check was to see if it had punched the finish – No
What to do now, we had an 2 hours daylight left and a car park with some public use.
We next got in all the 1st controls for the courses and downloaded those to see if the card number had been used.
It had not .
As a last check we searched the area between the start and the first controls.

Our assumption in the end was that someone shadowing a junior perhaps had inadvertently cleared, punched the start box and completed the course without further punching.

Would everyone have gone as far as us in the safety check process or did we go over the top?

PS the card number is on the chasers site –if anyone can shed any light on the situation…

[NeilC]

Possibly a little OTT. There is only so much responsibility one can take for competitors who haven't registered.

On a more general note how do most clubs register competitors nowadays? I get somewhat irritated by the fact that I keep being asked to fill in four forms at an event (for my family) when I know that most of the information requested is on a database and it's very easy to register via SI Card and master station. Obviously the situation is different for people hiring dibbers but I'd be interested in knowing how other clubs register people and what further information you request (if any) for safety matters -eg car registration number.

[stodge]

For hire cards you are right it's obvious...

It is still amazing how many people are not on the SI database - or run on other family members, friends, school etc cards.

The registration slips at WCH events once completed are only used for hire entry and for tracing people who don’t download.....
or are out an extremely long time....
Data entry is not done for non hire cards as Autodownload (fatboys software) does it all for us.

At every event we go through the motions with the last 5 or so people who have not yet downloaded - "Have they not downloaded or are they still out". The slip then helps in this process (car reg numbers etc etc)

For people with their own registered cards the slips are there purely for safety.....

If there had been a corresponding saftey slip for the missing card yesterday we probably would have had mounatin rescue out by now !!!

If everybody always punched the start ( 4 people didnt yesterday) and if everybody downloaded (2 people didnt yesterday and one came in way after courses closed) it would not be such a problem.

[RJ]

In the NW at our District events we use pink cards. At input, although MOST of the information is known about MOST ecards, the course needs to be input. We tried using ecard registration, but it was three or four times slower compared to reading ecard number off the pink card and then inputting course letter(s). With the ecard registration system you will always get hire ecards in the queue as well. All details of them have to be input..... a major slowing of the system.

On pink cards you can shuffle them about so that Yellow and Orange competitors go in first; hire ecards that need all the details can be kept together; database ecards can be entered quickly.

The pink cards are easy to flick through if looking for further details at the end of the event, such as car reg number, or if the person has travelled alone. It is definitely worth having a good registration card system.

[HOCOLITE]

We use direct input for all competitors with own cards and pull slips out for hire cards and do those manually. We find this is quickest way as it gets the details in accurately and quickly. The slips are still necessary for all due to safety and also where beginners run wrong course etc or people are input onto wrong course. There always seems to be something. Also sometimes the person on entries doesn't press return so next one overwrites it etc.

[stodge]

As Autodownload detects the course, we do not enter the course.
The entry slips are used as well to find out what course a missing runner is on...

As autodownload also allows the same si card to be used twice the slips also help with this.

We also use the entry slips to gain information from new comers and independants - we then follow them up with a info pack in the week after the event.

[stodge]

I agree with RJ, using OE2003 direct entry is far slower than typing in an si card and pulling the info off the databse...

Yesterday we had 465 EODs - only had to do data entry for about 70 of them

I can remember the same EOD load using OE2003 was a nightmare... Have a look at autodownload

Do the OE2003 users download the start boxes

[HOCOLITE]

Do the OE2003 users download the start boxes

Yes and run the OE software to detect missing runners

[kedge]

I would disagree to some extent with RJ & Stodge. The WIM experience is that Direct Entries on OE2003 works fine for us, without too much hold up in the queue. Admittedly, unless our events are on the New Forest side of our area, we aren't dealing with large numbers, but on days when everything is EOD, for example our annual Boxing Day event when 200+ orienteers arrive at 10.30 for an 11.00 Mass Start, we try to have as many as 4 input points to speed up data entry.

We also tend to use our most experienced computer people for Input, and the novices & volunteers for download during busy times. Familiarity with the software certainly hastens input.

Yes, all competitors fill in a form which requires car reg no.( & phone number for those hiring cards) and we brief our Start team to be very careful to make sure that anyone entering the Start pen uses the Check boxes.

Our only concern yesterday was for a lady out for over 90 minutes on the Orange course. When she came back, she apologised " Sorry, I'm carrying a back injury so I was only walking. I should have told you I was going to be taking my time!"

[FatBoy]

I'm sorry if this is considered self-plugging (but it's not like I make much money out of the software - certainly not enough to justify doing it!).

The WIM experience is that Direct Entries on OE2003 works fine for us

we try to have as many as 4 input points to speed up data entry.

Four!? Most clubs don't even have 4 laptops! Give the software a try.

I think for Stodge's problem yesterday it shows why you still need slips - even if for most people they're never even looked at. I think we should contact Martin Stone and try and establish a worldwide database of SI cards vs owners. I know one problem with the current SI database is it only holds BOF members once - for example I have two cards but only the newer (card 6) is registered to me. Maybe somebody used their old card to punch the start? The rest of it doesn't make much sense though.

Courses - it always amazes me how many people write one course on the slip and then do a different one.

[stodge]

Anyway - back on thread any ideas / theories about that strange start punch and do you think we went over the top in our checks ?

I have checked and the SI card has not been used at-
Any WCH events in the last two years,
Scottish Six Day 05
The Surrey 5O
The JK 2005 - from the start lists
Does card 24197 exist

Is there an orienteering Ghost !!!

[RJ]

Just to offer a possibility.... Last year we had two ecards that failed for some reason. They gave a spurious number when read by the software. They were hire cards and were removed from those available. They were replaced FOC. However, that doesn't help specifically with the circumstances. Perhaps worth checking your hire cards????

[King Penguin]

Can you get the start time for the card from the start box, then check with other (known) people who started at that time to see how many they recall being in the start box at the same time, and if they knew any of them ? Also, presumably the mystery starter should have been on a different course to the other known starters ?

[stodge]

RJ
That crossed our minds and I will do a check but 224197 is one of our hirecards (the strange one + a 2 at the start) and that went round OK.

Im going to try downloading the start box using SI station reader (Sportident UKs software for use in its attendance logging and multisports systems) and see what that gives me.

[stodge]

Just checked using SI station reader and got the same results.

The people who started close by were;

11:46:00 John Pigott POTOC Green
11:46:56 Luis Perdiagao NOC Brown
11:46:58 Ian Collinson HOC Green
11:47:02 Eleanor West SOS Blue
11:47:36 our Ghost
11:47:55 Jean Rostron POTOC Green
11:47:56 Begonia Garcia IND LT Green
11:48:56 Ruth Lockley HOC Green
11:48:58 Ian Roberts HOC Red


I hope I get to the bottom of this one its bugging me and Im not getting very far with todays proper work...