Scales for White and Yellow

[RJ]

Bit of a sort out needed here!

The British Schools Champs later this month are using 1:10000 scales for all courses. That is; 1:10 for White and Yellow.

Personally I feel that 1:5000 (or 1:7500) would be a much more appropriate scale to use. Give the juniors an A4 map to navigate on, not a postage stamp. A Yellow course may only be 20 cms long on the 1:10 map, with ten(?) circles. Juniors, at that level, are just not able to get enough information off the map to help them make the right decisions

Any thoughts? Should guidelines stipulate a more readable scale?

[gross2006]

Not enough info to form an opinion:) Where is the event, how complex is the area, how detailed is the map?

[mharky]

well as its white and yellow it's not really a matter of detail. i think it makes sense. kids books have big letters, kids calculators have big buttons...

[Guest]

Children run White and Yellow courses every week on 1:10,000 maps.
Why should this event be any different ?
Or should we be recommending large scale maps for juniors at all events ?

[HOCOLITE]

Children run White and Yellow courses every week on 1:10,000 maps.
Why should this event be any different ?
Or should we be recommending large scale maps for juniors at all events ?

I agree with this. British Schools has always had 1:10000 as far as I am aware and all kids are supposed to have completed at least three courses of the colour equivalent to the one they are entered on. These will be at normal O events. These children are years 5/6 and are not Reception they don't get big print etc at that age. They are the normal ages for M or W 10A/B courses at badge events, they cope with these. My son used a 1:10000 map at the age of 6 and didn't have problems so why patronise the children.

[El]

Why make the scale at the major event 1:5000, when all the events the kids have run at previously as experience will have been at 1:10000?
Last year the White and Yellow courses had A4 maps and the courses took up at least 10 sqaure centimetres (I'm sad enough that I just got out a ruler and measured it.) They looked fine and there was definitely enough detail. I can't imagine that any area being used for the British Schools (and I believe it's Temple Newsam this year) would have enough detail to justify a 1:5000 scale.

[FatBoy]

Yep keep the scales the same for kids and for adults. Unless an area is special can we just stick to 1:10,000 for young kids/vets and 1:15,000 for the rest? i.e. like what the rules say. I guess that means that all district/informal events will be 1:10,000 which is fine.

[Becks]

Temple Newsam definitely doesn't merit an increasein scale on complexity alone! I think El and co are right - if they orienteer normally on 1:10 000 then to change it for ths champs will only confuse things.

[RJ]

Agree Becks... for this year! But for the future we should be using the 1:5000 and 1:7500 scales. Surely we can't be the only part of the country where these scales are regularly used for the junior courses.

What is "why patronise the children" all about Hocolite? Help the youngsters to orienteer better and faster... one way is to have larger scales. And why do we use 1:10 now... simply because it has always been like that. All maps are bulk printed in 1000's and then overprinted with the course. In fact my kids have run Yellow courses on 1:15 maps! Things have changed! We now print to demand, and can have different scales to suit.

Why should 'oldies' have larger scales? Are we patronising them as well, Hocolite?

The essence of the thinking here should be to make the junior orienteering easier. Year 5/6 kids need help if they are perform as we want them.... at speed! We are talking about White and Yellow courses remember. No need to make it any harder.

[Rookie]

at all my British Schools in the past (years 7 to 13) I'm sure I used 1:10. Switching scales causes more confusion - Cumbria Schools (or Cumbria vs Lancashire) used 1:5 recently for all courses and it was confusing - I overshot loads. 1:7.5 is even worse becasue it's a bit random.

I remeber in year 7 the map was almost A3 with my white/yellow in the corner but I managed. It's less confusing to keep all scales the same except for longer courses where a 1:10 scale would make the map ridiculously large.

[Lizi Beee]

But it's also confusing for kids if they have been on one scale then it changes for such a big event, they have enough pressure on them as it is.
Also, it is unfair to compare juniors and "the oldies" for ligit use of 1:10000 scale. Deterioration of eyesight in older o-ers is not the same as trying to simplify courses for younger competitors.

[HOCOLITE]

Agree Becks... for this year! But for the future we should be using the 1:5000 and 1:7500 scales. Surely we can't be the only part of the country where these scales are regularly used for the junior courses. My kids have orienteered for 10 years now and as far as I'm aware only used 1:5000 on sprint races and very small areas, often outdoor ed centres used for training. All there mainstream and schools orienteering has been at 1:10000 or 1:15000 from M16+. I once had a 1:7500 scale at Lakes 5 days was the most awful O i'd ever done. I think kids can relate to 1:10000 where 1 centimetre is the length of a football pitch. They know what that is and can visualise it. It's not so easy to visualise 1/2 a football pitch. I have been involved with schools orienteering for the past 10 years and have not heard any adverse comments about 1:10000 and have not heard of other scales being used for schools O except for school site maps where 1:10000 would make the map a matchbox,

What is "why patronise the children" all about Hocolite? Help the youngsters to orienteer better and faster... one way is to have larger scales. And why do we use 1:10 now... simply because it has always been like that. All maps are bulk printed in 1000's and then overprinted with the course. In fact my kids have run Yellow courses on 1:15 maps! Things have changed! We now print to demand, and can have different scales to suit.

Why should 'oldies' have larger scales? Are we patronising them as well, Hocolite?

The essence of the thinking here should be to make the junior orienteering easier. Year 5/6 kids need help if they are perform as we want them.... at speed! We are talking about White and Yellow courses remember. No need to make it any harder.

[Lizi Beee]

i agree with hocolite, 1:10 000 is nice easy numbers to work out and visualise. also my 'rents have done quite a few maps for schools up here recently, most of which have been 1:10 000, though i think some may have been silly scales to get them to fit, and i have to say while checking a few with dad i was very confusing for both of us. Small scales are suitable for some things but why mess with what is working at the moment?

[mharky]

you've been mapping schools at 1:10000??? Are these schools huge? Can you show us a sample? School maps should be at 1:5000, 1:4000 or even bigger. The scale isn't really that important either. It's not like they are going to be learning compass and pacing, and if anyone does try and teach that to school kids stop it.

[Rookie]

depends on how old the school kids are - at Ulverston we used to do compass and pacing on the fields (admittedly without the map - purely following bearing practice)