BOF at its very brilliant best

[Zoom Zoom!]

A glance at the latest Management Committee minutes reveals a couple of gems regarding Officers attitude to spending the money we provide them with.
Item 05/70 on Office Premises includes an item on removal expenses amounting to £20,000 (in addition to the £12,000 a year rent). This is a greatly different from that quoted in a previous set of minutes (05/35f) where it was only £10,000. The new amount includes an expenditiure of £7000 on furniture. Now I do not know exactly how many individuals inhabit National Office but a glance at staff names in Focus would suggest that this is about £1000 per person. What sort of desks and chairs are we talking about here?
Further on the Budget for 2006 looks like running a loss of £50,000 which will be covered from reserves. I do not need to remind anyone that the last time we used such an amount from reserves, for the natural disaster of F&M, membership fees were increased by 50% the year after. Now we are talking about a disaster of our own, or our Officers, making.
Some of the loss is to cover the shortfall on income from membership fees voted for by the membership at the EGM. Did they not get the message that by allowing them less we wanted them to spend less or to spend it more effectively (on the sport and not swish new offices and furniture?)!
Both these proposals are to be placed before Council (I believe the next meeting is on 5th November - and some would say that is an appropriate day for action).
If you object to the use of your money to fund either of these ill conceived proposals make sure you let your Councillor or Association Representative (and any other member who might be interested) before the vote on the 5th.
Guy Fawkes would, of course, favour more direct action.

[Becks]

Right... I've been trying to get this straight in my head before I go ahead and reply to this, and I think it's there. I hope John will correct any errors.

Firstly, the new office premises will not be "swish." They will suitable for any modern day office, adhere to Health and Safety regulations, and house the staff comfortably. Have you been to BOF office as it is at present? It's virtually falling apart at the seams. The rent is presently well below commercial levels, but you get what you pay for. The whole building vibrates when the trucks from the truck firm behind go past, and furniture is out of date and falling to pieces. The toilets are pretty gross. Conditions I woudln't want to work in, that our staff shoudln't be expected to. Cheaper sources of furniture is presently being looked into by Malcolm Duncan in an attempt to cut that cost. If a maximum budget for the move can be set at Council then attempts will still be made to keep costs to a mimimum.

The new rent is a competitive and relatively cheap commercial rate, the increase simply reflecting how little we were paying before.

The draw on reserves is for two none recurring expenditures - £20k for the move and £20K for the Uk Coaching Ceritificate - a revamp of the coaching system. This second expenditure is far from set in stone, Derek is costing it up more accurately for Management in December and if they agree, the proposal will be passed to Council. I'm looking into this myself as coachng is an area that greatly interests me and I'm not yet 100% concerned of the benefits of spending this money here.

The rest of the deficit is because of the decreased funding from memebership fees and levy anticipated after the EGM. We voted for that guys. You could have changed it.

Take a look at your BOF fees at present. Compare them to most other sporting organisations and they're peanuts. Fees haven't been increased in line with inflation and at present almost ridiculously cheap. Fees are going to have to increase if we don't want our reserves to dwindle. Yet a fee increase was voted against.

The decision is with you guys to make. If you're not happy about funding like Zoom Zoom, go and ask questions and figure out the whole picture. I hope I've widened the view a little. These decisions are far from set n stone, and the Councillors and your Counil Reps are putting a lot of effort into deciding what we think is right for the Federation. If you have something to say then get in touch with them before Council next Saturday.

Personally I think the £20k for the move is more than justified, having spent a few days at BOF Office over the last year. I'm not so keen on the UKCC, but am looking into it at the moment.

[SeanC]

Office furniture can cost quite a bit. Sitting down all day long is bad for many peoples backs and can result in RSA. As soon as anyone complains of such symptoms, an employer has a duty of care to the employee and must provide suitable chairs and other equipment to lessen the problems. Just the chairs alone typically cost £600+. I've worked in offices where 1 in 3 people had orthopedic chairs. The health and safety laws apply to everyone, even lowely paid BOF employees. Also working in a shabby office is not going to encourage staff recruitment and retention.

But this is all speculation. I think there is a wider problem here. In the pre-internet age the system of minutes and meetings for communication was probably adequate, but now with email, websites and nopesport someone like Zoom Zoom can pick up information from BOF and run with it - obviously a good thing. But before I think the expenditure and deficit is ill conceived, or even give it a moments more thought, I would like to here the explanation from BOF. Should a BOF officer be responsible for answering questions like this on Nopesport or via email? Wouldn't this help these debate be more informed and relevant? If so are we prepared to increase our BOF membership from the current 0.1% (ish) of the average wage to pay for it?

[SeanC]

If what I said doesn't make complete sense, you should realise that I wrote my post before Becks'.

[Becks]

A BOF Officer isn't paid to sit on Nopesport and answer questions on a Sunday morning. By the time they got to the Office on Monday this could have spiralled out of all control. I'm a Councillor and was at the last Management meeting and I think it well within my role to advise you of thinking behind decisions.

There is an explanation about the move to be put into the next Focus written by Robin and UKCC is very much in it's infancy.

[John Morris]

If you want to look at office equipment costs, I recommend getting a Viking (am I allowed to place product references? ) office supplies catalogue. Just ring 0800 424 445 - they're free.

You will see that a fully adjustable operator's chair (the best! - so-called 'executive' chairs are cr*p) will cost between £150 and £200 (are you working for a Government department, Sean? ). You can also price desks, cupboards, filing cabinets, lighting - good lighting is vital, partitions etc.

You'll end up doing what Malcolm is currently doing - but fitting out dolls' houses is quite good fun! (I don't believe I said that! )

More interesting (to me) than what everything costs is what's included. The pricey items tend to be IT equipment and other office machinery - which we have already and may, may, be planning to replace, as these expensive gizmos tend to go obsolete every three to four years. Whether such renewal costs are or should be included under the rehousing budget is another matter, of course.

On the wider question, picked up by Becky, of funding the Federation's future, and how you assess proposals, I'm working on an induction guide for Council members. One major problem has been getting all the information together in a coherent shape - and I'm just about there (after 15 years working on it intermittently); the next will be presenting that(briefly but fully) in a fashion that will be intelligible to people who don't normally work in financial or other analytical areas. Do you just want to be told 'This is the TRUTH - believe!' or do you (like me) want to know how it works, and how it might be different...

If you have experience in this area, or are interested in how I'm approaching it, or just want to talk around it, contact me. I can use all the ideas I can get.

[John Morris]

I meant to say, since she asked, that Becks got it right. Hear the lady!

There are two questions that I'd like to ask anyone interested enough to be reading this thread. They follow from Becks' remarks about not getting what you don't pay for.

Firstly, would you prefer levy rates to rise faster than membership fees, or vice versa?

Secondly, given that general price inflation is running at about 2.5% per annum, what's the maximum annual rate of rise in BOF fee and levy rates that you would personally be prepared to pay (eg 7.5% pa, 10% pa, 15% pa, 20% pa)?

And I do mean 'personally'. It's what you would pay that interests me (and the Treasurer), not what you think some less fortunate person(s) should be asked for.

[RJ]

Firstly, would you prefer levy rates to rise faster than membership fees, or vice versa?

I would just like several thousand new people in the sport all paying a membership fee. More people mean greater revenue! If we have to suffer an increased burden, in the form of subscription hikes and higher levy in the short term, then OK.

I trust council to keep the costs down on equipping the new office. If you buy second rate stuff you will end up having to replace it sooner than you think.

[awk]

Becks.

I do applaud your response to Zoom Zoom. Good to see some sensible words spoken on the subject.

I'm sorry therefore to pick you up on this:

Take a look at your BOF fees at present. Compare them to most other sporting organisations and they're peanuts.

They might be for many, but not for me. My family's orienteering membership fees are the highest of the sports/outdoor memberships we pay, with least we believe in return.

Given that the BOF system can't even cope with family members belonging to seperate clubs, we have to pay as three seperate individuals, receiving 3 unwanted sets of mailings. So we are actually paying for stuff we don't want!

I have to say, I don't want to be a BOF member. I want to be a member of a club, and would be quite happy for my club fee to rise to encompass BOF financing, as long as my club could decide how the contribution from its members was raised.

[El]

Surely though, it's your decision to belong to different clubs? Your family might be the exception to the rule but what Becks said was generally true - orienteering membership fees are nothing compared to other sports.

[FatBoy]

BOF renewal is made harder to swallow for the simple reason that the regional and club renewals come with it. The actual BOF fee is comparable with say TCA membership, and somewhat cheaper than BCU (canoe) membership.

It takes a burden off clubs to collect this centrally but perhaps doesn't persuade people to renew if they've not been orienteering much.

As for family membership system not coping with 3 clubs - perhaps it's in the design that one of the definitions of a "family" is that you all belong to the same club? Seems reasonable to me.

[SeanC]

John - I have a back problem, exacerbated by sitting down all day long in an office. After medical advice I was given a flashy chair that keeps me sitting in the ergonomically ideal position. It cost £600. No-one is interested in my iffy back, the point I was making is that running an office with paid staff is full of hidden expenditure, a point you and Becks made better than me!

Orienteering costs make me grin. I stopped orienteering in the 90's and early 00's. When I started again I expected to pay about £10 per event, but the average cost seems to have barely gone up with inflation, say to about £5 an event. What can you buy for a fiver these days? You can't even get a half decent starter at Kent Curry in Dartford for a fiver. For a fiver at an orienteering event you get the incredibly detailed map that takes days or weeks to make, teams of people spending hours and hours planning and organising the sport, the latest electronic timing gizmos, somewhere to park your expensive lump of metal that got you to the event and some of the best countryside in Britain to trample all over. All for less than the cost of a small plate of spicy food.

My guess is that the average orienteers disposable income has gone up well above inflation in the last 20 years, and that the average orienteer could easly afford £10 per event.

[mharky]

What are BOF membership fees like compared to fell running and cross-country, as they are similar sports?

I'm a student so the prices for me are a lot better than for artisans and the like

[HOCOLITE]

John -
Orienteering costs make me grin. I stopped orienteering in the 90's and early 00's. When I started again I expected to pay about £10 per event, but the average cost seems to have barely gone up with inflation, say to about £5 an event. What can you buy for a fiver these days? You can't even get a half decent starter at Kent Curry in Dartford for a fiver. For a fiver at an orienteering event you get the incredibly detailed map that takes days or weeks to make, teams of people spending hours and hours planning and organising the sport, the latest electronic timing gizmos, somewhere to park your expensive lump of metal that got you to the event and some of the best countryside in Britain to trample all over. All for less than the cost of a small plate of spicy food.

My guess is that the average orienteers disposable income has gone up well above inflation in the last 20 years, and that the average orienteer could easly afford £10 per event.

Sean the problem is that the costs are fine if you are 1) committed to the sport
2) an individual
but if you are a beginner or have a family. The entries are not comparable to the alternatives, plus you have to travel to events.

A Game of hockey would probably cost £5.00 inc travel and 'teas' unless you play in a high level league where travel is nationwide. I expect football and rugby match fees are less I don't know

[AA]

Surely an important point is in danger of being missed here. If the original proposal was for £1000 per member of staff just for furniture (IT costs are listed seperately) and they are now looking at cheaper options it seems to me that members interests (after all they are providing the funds) were not being fully recognised when that proposal was formulated. A revealing question might be to ask whether members were consulted? Councillors, you are elected to defend members interests, what are the membership telling you?