EMIT punching

[Dan]

Is there a problem with Emit with people punching very close together. Yesterday at Blødslitet I was in a big pack at the first control and so we were punching really quickly after each other. I definitely punched, yet i was disqualified for missing the control. Yes, there is a back-up pin system, but in the rain for over 2 hours it is not likely to stay in, mine didnt.

[distracted]

I guess from what you're saying that you were using a version 2 card - the one without the LCD??

All of the essential EMIT electronics are in the card itself - the only thing the unit can tell a card present in its vicinity is its number. I'm not an expert in the intricacies of EMIT (contact Allan Farrington!), but from what I do know there could be two possibilities:
- for some reason, the unit in the forest loses power due to the sudden barrage of runners increasing the control's battery usage - although the standard controls are permanently switched on. If it's just yourself DQd at this control, this is unlikely, but if others as well then perhaps...
- the punch was too fast and it didn't register. If the card was properly inserted into the unit it should have been there long enough for data transfer (takes around 0.3s IIRC). then if there is no record on the card then you've either got a dodgy card or a faulty unit. Again, if the latter, should have affected more than just yourself.

Unlike SI, for EMIT the only record written of confirmation of a visit to a control is written on the card itself...

[Dan]

Yes, a version 2 card, what we were given and the boxes without the light to confirm that it has registered. It was strange because it was the control that I took the most time over punching because everyone was there, but no-one else was disqualified on that control as far as I know.

[rob f]

does anyone remember the world cup race which was a 16km mass start where a huge pack of orienteers ran towards the 4th control and had to punch at one emit station, absolute chaos, some ran on, some ran on and ran back, some waited, some thought they had punched it. I think emit is a problem for people punching in quick succesion

[distracted]

Yes, a version 2 card, what we were given and the boxes without the light to confirm that it has registered. It was strange because it was the control that I took the most time over punching because everyone was there, but no-one else was disqualified on that control as far as I know.

Mmm - sounds like either a problem with the card, or you were just plain unlucky as to when you punched. But at an event of that standard I would have thought they would have ensured there was some way of confirming an electronic punch, being a WRE... did the 21s have the same set-up?

[Dan]

Im pretty sure it was the same for the 21s, may not have been their first control so possibly less chaos. At ours there must have been 60 people punching within 30 seconds, only 2 punches, not ideal.

[Guest]

If you tape the EMIT backup lable in it should stay in place. Your responsibility. Punch, be sure you've confirmed punching & move on. No confirmation then dq'd.

Also if it was the new Emit units you should check the display to see if punch has recorded.

Tough luck

[Rookie]

It is the competitors responsibility to check punching but how do you confirm on the old emit system with no screen/beep/flashing light. Dan would've had the backup card at the first control and shown marks (who checks that? - can't quickly once the number of pin pricks builds up) but that doesn't prove that it's written to the card.

You can't always tape the backup. eg if it's a hired card and you only get it at the start (Nov Classic couple of years ago - as an example - I don't use EMIT much) unless you carry a roll of tape with you.

New emit with the LCD is better but I still prefer SI. Those events with hundreds of people at one control at once - do the planners do it just to laugh at everyone trying to get to the control?

[Guest]

you can ALWAYS tape the backup card in... even if given at the start line... take a couple of bits of tape with you.... if not your being lazy.

On EMIT proper punching will ALWAYS give you a manual back up... no flashing lights or jingle bells needed

[Paulo]

At an event a few months ago I arrived at a control which had an EMIT brick sitting in the control punch unit (not sure how someone managed to leave it there after punching - perhaps another competitor found it nearby and decided to put it on the control).

Anyhow, I removed the card so that I could punch, and carried on. When I finished I was DQ'd for missing that control out. Luckily I had the back up pin prick there so was reinstated.

I think it was Allan F I spoke to afterwards, and he said the other card sitting on the unit beforehand would be the explanation, as it somehow drains the battery in the unit or something like that... Guess this is the same principle applying when lots of people punch in quick succession.

[FatBoy]

I've used Emit when the card although still vaguely in place was a soggy mess by the time I finished - no use at all. Any suggestions on how to get round that one Guest? No offence to Emit in general but I feel the card backup system is a bit pointless.

[graeme]

I feel the card backup system is a bit pointless.

Worked for me...

At the Scottish champs in 2003, at the end of a very long elite course, I followed the tapes from the finish, back along the (taped) penultimate leg of the, white course, down the walk to the start and back to the clear station in the finish field off the map. Punched, looked around confused, then ran the 20m to the actual finish banner.

The finish team was able to verify from the backup that I'd visited all the controls, and to give me a time from start to download - better to be a couple of minutes long than DQ'ed.

This was kind of course, since it is rather easy to produce a correctly punched EMIT backup card in the comfort of your own home given the control descriiptions and a pin. But I didn't do that

I've never found a use for a whistle though...

Graeme

[redkite]

Last two times I have used emit in the rain the back up ended up as pulp. Perhaps its the way I hold the card? Though I doubt it.

[Guest]

yellow side of card faciing out the way.... bit of tape either side... should survive worst weather & some river dumpings... enough at anyrate to be usable as backup if required

[Adventure Racer]

Having admittedly not got that much experience of Emit (and when I've used it has either been V3 cards, or boxes that flash), I do wonder why the backup cards can't be made of tyvek for instance if getting wet and soggy is proving a problem.