So, Awk is saying day 1 and day 2 of JK 2006 are 68 miles apart.
I hardly think this conducive to family orienteering, nor to consideration for the environment.
I also return to my original point about those in B&Bs who do not know before making such arrangements what their start times will be.
Assuming 30 minutes to prepare oneself for one's run, and say a 30 minute walk to the start (has sometimes been more), one must arrive at least an hour before one's start time. That becomes 70 minutes to allow for traffic delays and parking congestion etc.
If you have a start at 10:00 (I assume that will be the first start time), then even if you are fortunate enough to find a B&B near the Event Centre (where it is I can assure you, having checked, very limited), you may have to leave on day 2 by 07:35.
ie travel 07:35 till 08:50 (75 minutes for 46 miles), then 70 minutes till start time as explained above. This means breakfast at 06:45 (I like an hour but can do it in less if need be). This is not easy to arrange on an Easter Sunday morning in B&B!!!
It could be worse too, if you happen to stay more than 46 miles from day 2 as a result of accommodation availability, and do not know your start times.
I suggest the organisers should either allow entrants to specify start time preferences on both days, or make the first starts no earlier than 10:45.
JK 2006 - where's day 2?
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schnitzer wrote:Mr. Furness wrote:[haven't mapped it/don't live on it/haven't planned on it]
Thats more like what 'if they know it like they mapped it' means.
I stand by my original point - if you know an area like you mapped it then you should be n/c
So if you want to make sure of being competitive at any future events you had better not do any planning or mapping? In an ideal world every competitor would have no prior knowledge of the area but in this country there is a limited amount of suitable terrain. To exclude people from one of the major races of the year simply because they happen to have planned on/mapped the area at some time in the past seems like penalising them for their contribution. To exclude them for living near the area is also harsh - again, penalising them for something over which they had no control.
I think you just have to accept that some people will have more knowledge of an area than others - as long as they haven't deliberately been acquiring more knowledge after the announcement of the location then they have done nothing untoward.
Personally I have decided not to run at Ilkley next year because I find overfamiliarity to be a distraction more than anything else.
- Neil M37
Two points:
1) If you know an area like the back of your hand any victory would be a hollow one so anybody in this situation likely to be at the pointy end of the results will do themselves a favour by declaring themselves N/C. If you win and you're n/c then everbody knows you won even if you don't get the pot, and you've scored a moral victory too. Anybody not at the pointy end of the results - well who cares n/c or otherwise?
2) I don't think many people know many areas like Schnitzer knows the area in question. I too trained on said area for at least 10 years and despite only having been on there maybe 10 times in the last 10 years I know it better than areas I've mapped. Partly because it's small, partly because there aren't masses of tecnical features, partly because there's places so rough nodbody would leave the path. Also partly because mapping an area takes days not years. That said areas I've mapped I could go to most control sites with only a single look at the map.
1) If you know an area like the back of your hand any victory would be a hollow one so anybody in this situation likely to be at the pointy end of the results will do themselves a favour by declaring themselves N/C. If you win and you're n/c then everbody knows you won even if you don't get the pot, and you've scored a moral victory too. Anybody not at the pointy end of the results - well who cares n/c or otherwise?
2) I don't think many people know many areas like Schnitzer knows the area in question. I too trained on said area for at least 10 years and despite only having been on there maybe 10 times in the last 10 years I know it better than areas I've mapped. Partly because it's small, partly because there aren't masses of tecnical features, partly because there's places so rough nodbody would leave the path. Also partly because mapping an area takes days not years. That said areas I've mapped I could go to most control sites with only a single look at the map.
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FatBoy - addict
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Neil M37 wrote:I think you just have to accept that some people will have more knowledge of an area than others - as long as they haven't deliberately been acquiring more knowledge after the announcement of the location then they have done nothing untoward.
I have run in the Lakes a few times against Bilbo on areas he has mapped - at C4 events. Maybe Bilbo would win on any area but my point is a fast orienteer who knows the area (esp a technical area) inch by inch will thrash pretty much the whole field with his/her clean run.
If a planner/mapper is really competitive then it is not fair at all to his/her other really competitive rivals and if a planner/mapper is not that interested in the competition, more in just having a chill in the woods, they probably wouldn't mind running n/c anyway.
I'm gonna keep it alive, and continue to be, flying like an eagle to my destiny.
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schnitzer - white
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For goodness sake Oldman, it's whingers like you who make some volunteers want to give up.
Do you really think that Airienteers wanted to give up its best all year round access area for 2 years? Do you really think that YHOA really wanted to put on these events in fairly ordinary areas at a not ideal distance apart? Do you really think that even if you have to start at 10am on the second day that you will be the first person up that day. 6.45am breakfast? Fairly standard fare for most workers. Many, many orienteers have breakfasted and departed at earlier hours than that for races in the past.
The fact of the matter is that both areas were way down the list in terms of areas YHOA wanted to use, but there's a little issue of access and car parking (e.g. most of Aire's best areas are unavailable at Easter due to lambing). However, after huge amount of work by some very committed volunteers, the region came up with the offering before you.
There are some pretty straightforward answers to your whining. If you can't find a B&B to cater for you (and I've never had a problem with early breakfasts, far earlier than your suggestion) then find some other type of accommodation.
And if you don't like it then, you don't have to come, it's not compulsory. Simple really.
Do you really think that Airienteers wanted to give up its best all year round access area for 2 years? Do you really think that YHOA really wanted to put on these events in fairly ordinary areas at a not ideal distance apart? Do you really think that even if you have to start at 10am on the second day that you will be the first person up that day. 6.45am breakfast? Fairly standard fare for most workers. Many, many orienteers have breakfasted and departed at earlier hours than that for races in the past.
The fact of the matter is that both areas were way down the list in terms of areas YHOA wanted to use, but there's a little issue of access and car parking (e.g. most of Aire's best areas are unavailable at Easter due to lambing). However, after huge amount of work by some very committed volunteers, the region came up with the offering before you.
There are some pretty straightforward answers to your whining. If you can't find a B&B to cater for you (and I've never had a problem with early breakfasts, far earlier than your suggestion) then find some other type of accommodation.
And if you don't like it then, you don't have to come, it's not compulsory. Simple really.
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awk - god
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JK 2006
OK, Awk, now I know how you got your forum nickname.
If reasonable concerns are met with diatribes, I will stop making any comment at all: and I suspect many others are inhibited by your kind of snazz.
Perhaps you didn't consider that I am also one of the many heavily committed volunteers in orienteering?
I raised the issue so that others reading this thread would be aware of, and could plan for, this unusual situation. Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered.
It would be nice if the info had been readily available and not only known by having to drag it out of someone here on Nopesport.
If reasonable concerns are met with diatribes, I will stop making any comment at all: and I suspect many others are inhibited by your kind of snazz.
Perhaps you didn't consider that I am also one of the many heavily committed volunteers in orienteering?
I raised the issue so that others reading this thread would be aware of, and could plan for, this unusual situation. Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered.
It would be nice if the info had been readily available and not only known by having to drag it out of someone here on Nopesport.
- Oldman
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Oldman - so let's you get a 10am start - go to bed a hour or two earlier (you probably be tired from day 1 anyway) then getting up at 6:45 (ohh lets be daring and go for 6:30 ) won't seem to be half as hard. A number of years ago I had the second start at (9:02 or so) at the biggest race of my life. I got up at 6am. Seem to remember reading that Paula Radcliffe would get up at 4am for a 9am marathon start - don't hear her complaining about it. She gets up and does it.
And as to how you got your forum nickname....
And as to how you got your forum nickname....
'If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, then Triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.' P.Z. Pearce
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Lil' God'rs - orange
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Re: JK 2006
Oldman wrote:If reasonable concerns are met with diatribes
Not sure this has been a problem so far
And please drive faster than 46 miles in 75 minutes or you will hold the rest of us up on our way to the event!!
If you can't drive faster and need the extra sleep then there is always the radical option of staying in a B&B near day 1 on Friday and a different B&B near day 2 on Saturday....
Why did I do that...
- Jon X
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Re: JK 2006
Oldman wrote:OK, Awk, now I know how you got your forum nickname.
I think you'll find AWK are his initials.
Oldman wrote:If reasonable concerns are met with diatribes, I will stop making any comment at all: and I suspect many others are inhibited by your kind of snazz.
No, awk's contributions to the nopesport debates are excellent, in my view, whereas your 13 posts haven't yet added much value.
Oldman, now starting to bore me, wrote:I raised the issue so that others reading this thread would be aware of, and could plan for, this unusual situation... It would be nice if the info had been readily available and not only known by having to drag it out of someone here on Nopesport.
The information doesn't get much more readily available than on the JK2006 website! The events are in 2 different counties, and the locations are described.
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Spookster - god
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Re: JK 2006
Spookster wrote:The information doesn't get much more readily available than on the JK2006 website! The events are in 2 different counties, and the locations are described.
But the JK2006 website would be much more easily accessible if there was an easy link to it from the BOF website. Currently the BOF "Major Events" link leads to JKs 2004 and 2005. Same applies for BOC. Not a great deal of help when trying to make plans for the future.
- seabird
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Mr. Furness - light green
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Re: JK 2006
seabird wrote:But the JK2006 website would be much more easily accessible if there was an easy link to it from the BOF website.
There is. If you look at the BOF Fixtures list for August 05 to April 06 JK 2006 is listed along with a link to the website. Pretty obvious, pretty logical, or would you like BOF to hold your hand round the forest as well?
- Guest
Re: JK 2006
Anonymous wrote:
There is. If you look at the BOF Fixtures list for August 05 to April 06 JK 2006 is listed along with a link to the website. Pretty obvious, pretty logical, or would you like BOF to hold your hand round the forest as well?
No help required. Fully acqainted with all the event details. But clearly from this thread not everyone is. We all approach information by different channels, and I was merely indicating one of the possible and obvious channels was out of date.
- seabird
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Seems to be more heat than light from these 4 pages. Surely anyone who's ever been involved, at any level, in putting on a JK understands the compromises that have to be made.
It's enough to make me turn my computer off and take my daughter for a walk on Ilkley Moor...
It's enough to make me turn my computer off and take my daughter for a walk on Ilkley Moor...
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