Great Britains - Top 10 all time best orienteers
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Anonymous wrote:The field always contains the vast majority of the world's best
Rubbish. They only allow 2/3 per nation and with four events to choose from the field is spread even thinner. By the time you get outside the top 20 the Swedish Champs has a stronger field...
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Hocolite wrote:You can't really make an orienteer an all time great just on WOC.
Hmmm, similarly then Lasse Viren was not an all time great athlete, didn't achieve anything except at the Olympics....
Why did I do that...
- Jon X
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harry wrote:if you are going to include jwoc you should also include wmoc
I disagree with the logic. For JWOC you have to get selected, whereas for WMOC anyone can enter so you can't guarantee that the best vets will be running.
But I do agree with you that a medal at JWOC is probably a good start but in terms of being a 'great' orienteer it means very little. Many people get medals at JWOC and then never get anywhere with senior WOCs. In view of that, I would say Alison's better achievement than a medal at JWOC is being selected for the British senior team at 19 (but again this doesn't say anything about her greatness)...
- Blanka
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bedders wrote:Aye...he's won some insane amount of JK and British Champs medal hasn't he? Like over 100? I think I read it in CompassSport
But JK's and British Champs have much lower level of competition than all the other competitions that have been mentioned. Surely if someone hasn't got any international results, they can't be judged one of the 'greatest'? (No idea about Mike Murray's O career - so don't mean to offend him if he does have international results!)
- Blanka
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When people are mentioning the size of field at WOC, remember that the situation is also the same at say the olympics or world champs athletics, but the very best are almost always still there, so if you want to get a really top placing or a medal, you still have to beat the very best.
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali
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J.Tullster - diehard
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I may be wrong here as I'm no expert on O history but did Carol McNeill, Mike Murray et al ever have an opportunity of competing in a WOC at their prime. If not we have to judge them on their best at a later age!
With ref to one WOC performance do we judge the best footballer on one World Cup. I think not although being in the winning team at the World Cup helps
Hocolite
With ref to one WOC performance do we judge the best footballer on one World Cup. I think not although being in the winning team at the World Cup helps
Hocolite
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Anonymous wrote:I may be wrong here as I'm no expert on O history but did Carol McNeill, Mike Murray et al ever have an opportunity of competing in a WOC at their prime. If not we have to judge them on their best at a later age!
With ref to one WOC performance do we judge the best footballer on one World Cup. I think not although being in the winning team at the World Cup helps
Hocolite
Carol McNeill ran in every WOC from 1968 to 1981 apart from 1974, so yes she was undoubtedly competing in her prime. Mike Murray ran in the 1974 WOC placing in the mid-30s. I don't know exactly how old he is but he is an M60 now so he was at least 29. Given how good he is at 60 I think he is probably still in his prime.
I don't think the footballer analogy is particularly relevant - athletics is closer, and if you never win a World Champs or Olympics in athletics then your greatness is in question, even for a world record holder like Paula Radcliffe.
The Nordics might have a higher standard of competition but from a British point of view WOC is the pinnacle of orienteering competition. If you came to orienteering too late to have a chance to run in it then maybe you could have been one of Britain's top 10 great orienteers but there is no way to compare. WOC results aren't an absolute measure given the huge difference in the nature of international competition now compared with the 1970s but it is the only means we have of comparing athletes in different eras.
Neil M35
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Does anyone know how mins/km compare now with the 70s/80s? Again, not a perfectly clear measure as the maps are so much better nowadays.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Graeme wrote:Does anyone know how mins/km compare now with the 70s/80s? Again, not a perfectly clear measure as the maps are so much better nowadays.
And there is a huge difference in the terrain. If you really want to work it out, all the WOC results are listed here http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/a ... D=IHISTORY
Most but not all have course lengths.
Neil
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I meant "of British orienteers in the same British areas".
As you say, comparing WOCs in different countries would be meaningless.
Graeme
As you say, comparing WOCs in different countries would be meaningless.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Graeme wrote:I meant "of British orienteers in the same British areas".
As you say, comparing WOCs in different countries would be meaningless.
Graeme
yes, but have you got any domestic results from the 1970s sitting around? If you could get hold of the results from the British Champs on Cannock maybe.
- Guest
Anonymous wrote: Mike Murray ran in the 1974 WOC placing in the mid-30s.
Mike also ran in 1972 finishing 35th. This was also the year that Geoff Peck finished 11th.
Mike moved up to M60 in 2004, so it would be fair to say that his two WOC opportunities occured when he was in his athletic prime. Given the subsequent development of O in the UK it is perhaps debatable as to whether this also coincided with his orienteering prime?
- Dave H
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