Protests

[graeme]

I've made about seven (in three countries, but not for many years). On every case the jury agreed I was right, and in no case was the course voided. Typical outcomes were reinstatement of individuals, refund of money, and "you're right, have your money back, but it would be a shame to void the course for a little thing like that".

[mharky]

Once of hand, and it shaped the way we DSQ people today...

[MarkC]

I've made about seven...

In which case why does the poll only go up to two?

BTW none in my case, largely because I'm usually well down the results due to my own mistakes...

[Tatty]

Once, as club captain, at the request of my club. It was upheld, although did not mean a course was cancelled.

[fish]

Tried to protest once - JK in Wales for the control on the wrong crag - and the really bad locations of crossing points. It was an attempt at a mass protest, but if i remember not allowed as it was only decided to be done the following day - someone else might remember better.
And I can claim to hold my head high - as I'd won the previous day as well!!!
Fish

[RJ]

Scottish champs in SW Scotland quite a few years ago now (I think). One control on the wrong feature, wrong code on one of mine, and several crossing points incorrectly marked on the maps.

I was livid when I finished and insisted that I was given a form in order to make a formal protest. I believe a couple of other formal protests were made.

The comments in the results book (IMHO) were a load of Gordon's b's. The grade 1 controller involved quietly retired from the scene and was never asked to be involved again. But BOF saw fit, nevertheless, to award him a long service award a year or so later.

[DaveR]

One, the response was the classic: "you're right, have your money back, but it would be a shame to void the course for a little thing like that"
Dave

[stodge]

None

You have to be careful with encouraging protests...
eg

Challenger World Adventure races...
Here there is almost a culture of appeals and protests which take longer to sort through than producing the results. It got so bad that they ended up giving time penalties to teams who put in protests that were not upheld.

Valid protests are fine but can you imagine a jury having to visit two or three control sites at every event because of over zealous protests.

Having been on the finish / download for most WCH events for the past 3 years, I have heard many unofficial protests from mediocre club orienteers which are mostly sorted by a quick look at the all controls map.

Although we are all mostly saying that for C4s its better to not void, it is amazing how competitive some people get on C4s and the strops I see in the finish tent when they find they have mispunched.....

I think money back is a good idea if your course is voided through fault of the organisers, though how far you could push this - eg travel expenses etc is opening a dangerous floodgate the sport can not afford.

[graeme]

You have to be careful with encouraging protests...

Having been on the finish / download for most WCH events for the past 3 years, I have heard many unofficial protests from mediocre club orienteers which are mostly sorted by a quick look at the all controls map.

I must confess to finding this one of the most satisfying parts of controlling. You have a competitor, upset, thinking they've been robbed and ready to go away with bad impression of the race. In a few moments all is explained, the competitor may feel slightly embarrassed, but the bad feeling
vanishes and they always express gratitude.

Far, far worse the festering moans at the next event of people who never knew what they did wrong, and tacitly blame it on the organisers.

Graeme

[mharky]

I have been on the wrong side of the 2 mistakes. I have hung controls, only to be told by people who I called at the time "crap orienteers" that they were wrong when the clearly were not. I have also come back from races, spoken to the officials telling them how a control is in the wrong place, only to be completely ignored because I am so pesky kid who obviously can't orienteer.

I think the having to pay thing is a good idea. It should stop people complaing for little things, which probably were fine. But there must also be some negavtity going the other way, if a control is in the wrong place the controler, planner and hanger have to pay £5 to some orienteering charity fund.

[Ed]

you've got to distinguish between protests and complaints.

Complaints are when you go and have a word with the planner/controller/organiser and say "I thought XYZ was a bit dodgy" and they say "no it was fine" or "yes it was, but we hoped no-one would notice". Theoretically if a complaint is justified then the organisers should then take appropriate action such as void the course (or take out a random selection of split times if Graham's in charge). Usually they probably say "we're not going to do anything, but if you want to make a protest and cause lots of hassle for everyone then and have the course voided and make everyone really unhappy then go ahead".

A protest is when the competitor says something is dodgy, the controller says it was fine and/or (s)he isn't going to do anything even if it was and therefore a jury is needed to decide whether or not it was dodgy, if it was dodgy what should be done about it.

I think the whole process is in the BOF rules somewhere, or at least the one and only time I made a protest the controller insisted on getting out his copy of the BOF rules to make sure that the correct procedure was being followed... I guess the BOF thing to sort out lines of communication for this kind of thing should hopefully sort out some of this (probably a forlorn hope)

[RJ]

mharky wrote:

if a control is in the wrong place the controler, planner and hanger have to pay £5 to some orienteering charity fund.

I like it.... a void box..... bit like a swear box!!