The Interlopers' street event last night managed to attract some adventure racers preparing for the Rat Race. (I'd stuck an advert for the series of street events on the sleepmonsters forum).
Hopefully they enjoyed orienteering and will come along to more events.
Adverts
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Adventure Racer wrote:
How can AR possibly make good training for anything else when you come back from an event totally stuffed and not wanting to do anything for days afterwards?
Maybe I didn't push myself hard enough at the weekend... after sleeping for an extraordinary long period on Monday (at work!) and sorting out my blood sugar levels I'm raring to go again this weekend.
Perhaps I should say that I feel more motivated now to train for AR rather than orienteering (probably because I'm fairly new to it). Having come through the junior O ranks in the days before the Start Squad etc, there was nothing left for me to aim for when I didn't get to the top. AR provides me with new challenges and goals which have re-inspired me in my orienteering.
Good to see that Godders is using cross advertising the other way too!
Run rabbit, run
-
P2B - orange
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:26 pm
- Location: Sunny Surrey
Just been looking on the Sleepmonsters website, a company called dynamic adventure racing are advertising a training course for adventure racing (http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/calendar ... ion=Surrey).
This is just a suggestion but would an orienteering beginners course appeal to adventure racers as training for adventure racing?
Something like
Sat AM: Basic theory and practice.
Sat early PM: Do an orange standard course at a local event.
Sat late PM: Discussion, more advanced theory and practice.
Sat evening: meal/pub
Sun morning: Red/Light Green/Green standard course at district event.
Sun after event: Pub lunch and hand out membership forms to local clubs/fixture list.
If you did this in the London area in the autumn, could you get enough numbers to make it worthwhile (20+ people)?
I'm not volunteering to organise it, but I'd help.
And of course, aimed at and open to non-adventure racers as well.
(no bad language in your responses please )
This is just a suggestion but would an orienteering beginners course appeal to adventure racers as training for adventure racing?
Something like
Sat AM: Basic theory and practice.
Sat early PM: Do an orange standard course at a local event.
Sat late PM: Discussion, more advanced theory and practice.
Sat evening: meal/pub
Sun morning: Red/Light Green/Green standard course at district event.
Sun after event: Pub lunch and hand out membership forms to local clubs/fixture list.
If you did this in the London area in the autumn, could you get enough numbers to make it worthwhile (20+ people)?
I'm not volunteering to organise it, but I'd help.
And of course, aimed at and open to non-adventure racers as well.
(no bad language in your responses please )
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
I have to admit I didn't even notice there was an orienteering stand at the Rat Race - but that may be as much a reflection on my event focus and not noticing anything else around me going on as on how good the stand was. Anyway, I think Andy S should be encouraged to take charge of the stand at Edinburgh - hopefully it will tire him out enough that we can beat his team next time
I reckon there has to be demand there for orienteering training amongst adventure racers. Personally I might be tempted to make it just a one day thing, as we do tend not to like doing just one thing for too long I can see the point of having training on a Saturday leading into an event on Sunday, but do you have any Saturday afternoon events (which are also lower key round here) round your way, so you could do training in the morning and the event in the afternoon, followed by a debrief in thew event area and beers in the evening (A Racers like their beers)?
I suspect one of the biggest issues in getting people to cross over is simply awareness of orienteering - the perfect example being Andy being asked by his teammate how to improve navigation. This is an all too common question (usually preceeded by "How do you find your way round the course so well?"), to which I always suggest taking part in orienteering. If there is something more I can do to promote orienteering within adventure racing, then I am happy to help. In fact here goes (off to post a message on Sleepmonsters).
I reckon there has to be demand there for orienteering training amongst adventure racers. Personally I might be tempted to make it just a one day thing, as we do tend not to like doing just one thing for too long I can see the point of having training on a Saturday leading into an event on Sunday, but do you have any Saturday afternoon events (which are also lower key round here) round your way, so you could do training in the morning and the event in the afternoon, followed by a debrief in thew event area and beers in the evening (A Racers like their beers)?
I suspect one of the biggest issues in getting people to cross over is simply awareness of orienteering - the perfect example being Andy being asked by his teammate how to improve navigation. This is an all too common question (usually preceeded by "How do you find your way round the course so well?"), to which I always suggest taking part in orienteering. If there is something more I can do to promote orienteering within adventure racing, then I am happy to help. In fact here goes (off to post a message on Sleepmonsters).
- Adventure Racer
- addict
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:53 pm
- Location: Somewhere near Malvern
DA Training
I run this course on behalf of Dynamic Adventure, it covers a little more than foot navigation (kayaking, MTBing, race strategies, nutrition, training). That said what you are proposing sounds very interesting and I am sure would be taken up by many adventure racers.
The only thing I would add is that you put an experienced orienteer with someone (or a group) on the events so they can get some direct feedback, rather than shoving them in to a forest and hopeing they come back in hour.
Some other interesting facts from the Dynamic Adventure Training events - the majority of participants are women (although AR definately has more men). And numbers seem to be higher at the end of the summer season than at the beginning. Enjoy.
The only thing I would add is that you put an experienced orienteer with someone (or a group) on the events so they can get some direct feedback, rather than shoving them in to a forest and hopeing they come back in hour.
Some other interesting facts from the Dynamic Adventure Training events - the majority of participants are women (although AR definately has more men). And numbers seem to be higher at the end of the summer season than at the beginning. Enjoy.
- openadventure
- off string
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 7:03 pm
Well, as an ex elite orienteer, i feel very embaressed at some of the comments on this discussion.
Orienteering isn't a big enougth sport to be saying who can and can't compete, if some AR's want to use it purely for training, whats the problem.
Elite orienteers are just that, they race and train for orienteering only (i've tried to get my bro to do some AR's but he's orienteering at the moment).
but there are some people. like myself who still loves orienteering and i'm trying to race at as high a level as possible. and those who just go along for the banterous side of the sport.
In my opinion, we should advertise lots of different events/sports here, as that means that orienteers go and do different sports, then they tell others that they orienteer, possibly pulling people back to orienteering.
As for myself, i'm in my team for my nav skills (not my kayaking!!!) but i recomend (as does the team manager) people to go orienteering to improve their own nav, and all of my team do do this pretty often.
I suggest all those people who raced in Bristol to get more orienteering in before edinburgh, as there are more parks to race round up here.
Basically. all sport is open to anyone. more people should go orienteering cos its great fun, but even if its just for your AR training, whats the problem. and more orienteers should get out more as some seem to be quite narrow minded
Gross take you medicine!!
Orienteering isn't a big enougth sport to be saying who can and can't compete, if some AR's want to use it purely for training, whats the problem.
Elite orienteers are just that, they race and train for orienteering only (i've tried to get my bro to do some AR's but he's orienteering at the moment).
but there are some people. like myself who still loves orienteering and i'm trying to race at as high a level as possible. and those who just go along for the banterous side of the sport.
In my opinion, we should advertise lots of different events/sports here, as that means that orienteers go and do different sports, then they tell others that they orienteer, possibly pulling people back to orienteering.
As for myself, i'm in my team for my nav skills (not my kayaking!!!) but i recomend (as does the team manager) people to go orienteering to improve their own nav, and all of my team do do this pretty often.
I suggest all those people who raced in Bristol to get more orienteering in before edinburgh, as there are more parks to race round up here.
Basically. all sport is open to anyone. more people should go orienteering cos its great fun, but even if its just for your AR training, whats the problem. and more orienteers should get out more as some seem to be quite narrow minded
Gross take you medicine!!
'Grab it by the balls'
-
the duncan - diehard
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:20 pm
- Location: The mighty 'Deen
i just do hill races* and cross country as training for orienteering and they don't seem to mind. we send an email the club round about local o events because some hill races* require a bit of navigation and one girl from my hill running* club is now learning orienteering.
*if you are english it's "fell running"
this thread was about should we advertise adventure races on here. but i think rat race and open 24 are paying in some way for these adverts. therefore keeping nopesport ticking over. what's wrong with that?
as far as adventure racing vs orienteering
mmm controversial but..
orienteering is much more specialist and elite than adventure racing. takes much more skill and specific training. to be a good adventure racer you just need to be a good all rounder and to be able to keep going for a really long time. looking at the stage times for C2 in stockholm - which is a higher standard than rat race, it's sloooooowww and loooonnng and some things are quite fun/silly. it's a totally different sport. if you can even call it a sport - it's a combination of sports and there is no standard format. i guess that's what makes it fun. i'm not saying the top adventure racers aren't good athletes because they are but if they were really really good in any of these disciplines maybe they would be doing that. it seems they are very fit, with very good stamina but good all-rounders.
*if you are english it's "fell running"
this thread was about should we advertise adventure races on here. but i think rat race and open 24 are paying in some way for these adverts. therefore keeping nopesport ticking over. what's wrong with that?
as far as adventure racing vs orienteering
mmm controversial but..
orienteering is much more specialist and elite than adventure racing. takes much more skill and specific training. to be a good adventure racer you just need to be a good all rounder and to be able to keep going for a really long time. looking at the stage times for C2 in stockholm - which is a higher standard than rat race, it's sloooooowww and loooonnng and some things are quite fun/silly. it's a totally different sport. if you can even call it a sport - it's a combination of sports and there is no standard format. i guess that's what makes it fun. i'm not saying the top adventure racers aren't good athletes because they are but if they were really really good in any of these disciplines maybe they would be doing that. it seems they are very fit, with very good stamina but good all-rounders.
-
harry - addict
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:18 pm
- Location: Halden
Adventure Racer wrote:I reckon there has to be demand there for orienteering training amongst adventure racers.
From what I've seen, if ARs want to do well, learning smooth navigation is what most need...
At last year's rat race, I jogged back into town after the orienteering while the competitors (average types) MTBed down a big wide track. Over about 30mins - all downhill - I averaged the same speed as the cyclists, made up of being passed by AR's doing 20+mph downhill, and passing them standing still poring and arguing over maps.
This used to be true in mountain marathons, but most of that crowd have sorted it out now. The ARs will all learn eventually, but there's plenty of gain to be had now.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
A point I meant to make in my earlier post was that the ‘orienteers’ I referred to certainly weren’t the only ones navigating in any of the top three teams at the rat race (any such presumption couldn’t be further from the truth), but all did play a part in helping their teams in this area (and in my case in hindering the team’s progress as well - thanks John for getting us out of the caves!).
Last edited by AndyS on Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
- AndyS
- string
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:17 pm
- Location: Loughborough
i know a few "multisport" people in sweden and they reckon success is due to three key parts
1. fitness/stamina
2. organisation (support team/kit/changeovers etc)
3. navigation
but apparently the orienteering in these races is jätte lätt - really easy.
so they'd probably improve real quick if they did a bit of orienteering even just in parks.
one girl in my club who's done like 2.53 for a marathon and is in a top multisport team - think they were 2nd in that C2 - is often all over the place in real orienteering. occasionally she can do really really well - especially in ungaffled things but occassionally it's bad and you never know. she's very fast and fit tho.
1. fitness/stamina
2. organisation (support team/kit/changeovers etc)
3. navigation
but apparently the orienteering in these races is jätte lätt - really easy.
so they'd probably improve real quick if they did a bit of orienteering even just in parks.
one girl in my club who's done like 2.53 for a marathon and is in a top multisport team - think they were 2nd in that C2 - is often all over the place in real orienteering. occasionally she can do really really well - especially in ungaffled things but occassionally it's bad and you never know. she's very fast and fit tho.
-
harry - addict
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:18 pm
- Location: Halden
"I can see the point of having training on a Saturday leading into an event on Sunday, but do you have any Saturday afternoon events (which are also lower key round here) round your way, so you could do training in the morning and the event in the afternoon, followed by a debrief in thew event area and beers in the evening (A Racers like their beers)? "
Thanks AR. This would be a lot easier to organise. We do have Saturday events with lateish start times (last one's 1.30). However they are about to stop until the autumn.
How does this sound
9.30ish meet at event area for training
12ish everyone does a yellow course just to learn the procedure (we still use punching controls down here).
1.30ish everyone does a light green course in pairs.
3.30: Local pub for drink/food and feedback.
Not sure about the evening drink/meal though. Maybe this might just happen depending on the crowd.
I'm inclined to think I could push people off into the forest so long as the training is OK. I remember my partner and her friend doing a light green course a while back. The people at registration looked horrified that they were doing light Green as their first event. I walked with them for the first 20 minutes giving them a lesson on scale, features etc. and after that they were fine (they took 1 and 3/4 hours, but they only walked round).
Also this means I can get a run as well.
AR and OpenAdventure, do you think 10-20 adventure racers would want to do this? Our areas aren't the best in the country, but they are often near a train station, and you can always walk to a road and get a cab if you're completely lost. There would be a 30-60 minute train ride out of London.
Thanks AR. This would be a lot easier to organise. We do have Saturday events with lateish start times (last one's 1.30). However they are about to stop until the autumn.
How does this sound
9.30ish meet at event area for training
12ish everyone does a yellow course just to learn the procedure (we still use punching controls down here).
1.30ish everyone does a light green course in pairs.
3.30: Local pub for drink/food and feedback.
Not sure about the evening drink/meal though. Maybe this might just happen depending on the crowd.
I'm inclined to think I could push people off into the forest so long as the training is OK. I remember my partner and her friend doing a light green course a while back. The people at registration looked horrified that they were doing light Green as their first event. I walked with them for the first 20 minutes giving them a lesson on scale, features etc. and after that they were fine (they took 1 and 3/4 hours, but they only walked round).
Also this means I can get a run as well.
AR and OpenAdventure, do you think 10-20 adventure racers would want to do this? Our areas aren't the best in the country, but they are often near a train station, and you can always walk to a road and get a cab if you're completely lost. There would be a 30-60 minute train ride out of London.
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
harry wrote:but apparently the orienteering in these races is jätte lätt - really easy.
I've heard its often really bad too - dodgy maps, misplaced/hidden controls etc. etc. This is one area
where orienteers need to get involved, because we dont want people coming away with a bad impression of the sport.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
yeah, the maps can be a bit dodgy, thats one of the skills you need, to be able to understand various map scales and control placings, they are often hidden, but you are told where they are,
like
Under a bridge
the orienteering at the edinburgh RR will be good, cos its orienteers doing it.
the maps in sweden for the C2 last year were shockingly bad, i expected great maps by their O map standard, but we are very spoilt here with the OS they make the best maps in the world!!
like
Under a bridge
the orienteering at the edinburgh RR will be good, cos its orienteers doing it.
the maps in sweden for the C2 last year were shockingly bad, i expected great maps by their O map standard, but we are very spoilt here with the OS they make the best maps in the world!!
'Grab it by the balls'
-
the duncan - diehard
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:20 pm
- Location: The mighty 'Deen
SeanC - that sounds like a good plan. I can't guarantee it, but if anything will get ARs into orienteering that's probably it. Also whilst you might not have great areas, there are a lot of potential recruits in London. Not much response to my Sleepmonsters post yet, but I can try again with something more specific to see if there is demand.
I don't really agree about AR nav being easy. Maybe compared to highly technical orienteering, but it does have its own challenges, including poor maps, darkness, mist on hills and inpenetrable forests (we don't get runnability mapped) - that and trying to find your way at 3am when you've not slept for 2 days. It also depends on the race - you can sometimes get very technical nav on 1:25,000 mapping at ACE races in the right areas. Oh, and by poor mapping I mean absence of useful features, unmapped paths and non-existence of mapped paths rather than an inherent inaccuracy, which means you have to work very carefully with the information you do have available such as contours (though often only 20m intervals!)
I don't really agree about AR nav being easy. Maybe compared to highly technical orienteering, but it does have its own challenges, including poor maps, darkness, mist on hills and inpenetrable forests (we don't get runnability mapped) - that and trying to find your way at 3am when you've not slept for 2 days. It also depends on the race - you can sometimes get very technical nav on 1:25,000 mapping at ACE races in the right areas. Oh, and by poor mapping I mean absence of useful features, unmapped paths and non-existence of mapped paths rather than an inherent inaccuracy, which means you have to work very carefully with the information you do have available such as contours (though often only 20m intervals!)
- Adventure Racer
- addict
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:53 pm
- Location: Somewhere near Malvern
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 177 guests