Membership Meeting - some daylight

[RJ]

The meeting on Saturday generated a lot of debate and probably, very fairly, represented in those discussions most of the views held within the wider membership at large. Nothing really new then!


The meeting agreed that a simplified membership structure was needed, where everyone is a member of the National Governing Body (BOF). Income should be raised from membership fees and event levy...... so no change there. Orienteering is not alone. Many (most? all?) sports have a similar problem. We need a model, NOW, well actually... ten years ago!


On membership..... (1) a single tier of membership, with all local only members being brought on board at £6. But existing members would see a decrease from current levels, down to £6. People questioned why we should want to lose that extra funding from members who are already prepared to pay it.

(2) a two tier system. Existing members remain, and that funding is retained. Local members buy in at £5, and are registered as BOF 'local' members. Membership cards would be used. 'New Member' cards could also be used to look after those trying the sport, with, perhaps, various financial incentives associated with that card.

(3) an integrated IT system would keep a check on membership level and entitlements.

(4) Regional events and above could only be entered by full BOF members. Again, IT controls this. Online "everything" will be the norm before too long. Allowance for local members within the region can be catered for. Colour coded courses would be open to all. It would be understood that local members could only orienteer in their own region without paying a surcharge.

(5) Everyone taking part in C1 to C4 events should be identifyable, to the extent that they are either a BOF member or someone trying the sport with a view to joining. Insurance cover is the key here.


Levy.... The overriding concern was for the protection of the informal C5 and training events. A levy of £1.50 or whatever was a no-no! A standard registration charge of say £5/£10, or a low levy, say 15p were alternatives.


Participation in schools.... Now this was a real eye opener! Robin Field said that over 1,000,000 school children were doing orienteering within schools, according to government research. I think I recall correctly that this represents 43% of school children, more than rugby! IMHO that is why school links are critical to the future of the sport, and why certain parts of the country are having great success in generating membership from schools.


RDOs....... This is crucial. The Strategic Plan agreed last year (?) recommended an increase in RDO involvement from one day to two for each of the regions. The first day is paid for by the Sports Council, with the second funded by BOF (us!).

....... Again, government research and policy (avoid the kneejerk!) sees the RDOs as the vehicle to bringing the public into various sports, by helping each of the individual sports themselves. The RDOs have an overview of the region they are working in, have specific links to the people and organisations who can, and will, provide funding for specific tasks and projects. The PESCL (?), PE Schools Clubs Link program has very large funding! Various parts of the country are benefitting from some of this money already.

........ IMHO evaluating progress made by the RDOs in the short term is not possible. Investing in development is a long term project. Government (and university) research amongst loads of sports has shown that this model works.

...... There is an enormous fund of grant/money available through education and health agencies. The RDOs can find this and direct club efforts in that direction. In the end, the policy/model is trying to bring people into the sport and into an active life.

....... The cost is £40k per year. It is a lot of money. Do we bite the bullet and fund it for five years, say. Or do we go back to the strategic plan and remove it all together. Do we want to lose this opportunity to bring in new members?


Conclusion..... Just how simple does the NEW system have to be? Council may or may not decide to put forward a proposal for the EGM. A proposal will need 75% acceptance. We really need to start finding the common ground and building on it .... or we will end up as a sport that is unable to move forward, and we will slowly wither and disappear.

We need another 8000 members NOW.... Finger out time!

[Mrs H.]

Why have you started a separate thread on this when it's already under debate in Membership Meeting?

Robin Field said that over 1,000,000 school children were doing orienteering within schools, according to government research.!

IF this is true - why don't we see any new school kids at our events? they should be filtering though by now!

[PorkyFatBoy]

Robin Field said that over 1,000,000 school children were doing orienteering within schools, according to government research.

Two points:

1 Is their definition of Orienteering the same as ours? I think not.

2 There are lies, damn lies and government statistics.

[RJ]

Mrs H....... The other topic is getting bogged down in insurance. I was hoping to get the debate back to a broader front.

Porky Fat Boy and Mrs H...... Let us not dismiss the school participation figures just like that. Maybe they are doing orinteering as we know it. Such a lot of teachers have Instructor and Coaching level 1 awards. Yes they are orienteering, but it is at White standard. But it involves maps, controls and competition.... nothing wrong with that!

Now, why aren't the kids joining clubs in droves and attending our events in their thousands? Examine what we provide.... a sport that is JUST RIGHT for us, in other words, courses that are JUST WHAT WE WANT. We need White and White and White courses for these kids.... AND....we need them on areas that are easily accessible for them. We hide our events away in forests, miles from the centres of population.

Look at the car park and the orienteering competitors at the next event. In no way do we come near to representing a cross section of society as a whole. We are perpetuating a clientelle that is from a tiny part of the population. Decide.... do we wish to remain so? If we do, then the sport is dead. We must broaden our appeal, take orienteering closer to the population centres, and provide MUCH MUCH MORE of the informal, easy orienteering that will give the general public and school children a chance to learn and develop into orienteers like us, who have spent the last twenty years learning how to orienteer!

[El]

Agh, please will everyone stop being so annoyingly negative. I thought RJ's post was helpful, clear, informative and so right in that we need to move forward.
All anyone on here seems to be able to do is stand determinedly on the "whatever anyone else says or does is wrong" point and refuse to move anywhere, let alone forward.

[PorkyFatBoy]

Agh, please will everyone stop being so annoyingly negative......All anyone on here seems to be able to do is stand determinedly on the "whatever anyone else says or does is wrong" point and refuse to move anywhere, let alone forward.

I'm trying very hard not be negative, but there is an inordinate amount of time and energy being spent discussing the membership proposals - quite simply I've had enough. Whilst these are important, I'd rather get on an plan some events to get the punters in - exactly as RJ is saying.

After four weeks of politicians scaring us about what will happen if we don't for their party, RJ's "rallying call" just hits the wrong note for me.

Now, I have to e-mail El's mum about development...

[Mrs H.]

I'm not being negative - I simply don't agree - i have an alternative which i shall be trialing this autumn. We at HOC have been providing low key, easy events for schools in accessible area for years and years - they have brought in a few families - but not that many - and I can't think of a single kid who has come back on his own to a mainstream event - without the support of his family how could he? Rather than water down the sport to try and appeal to more kids I think we should try getting families out a bit further afield -with some EVO to make it worth their while - and show them the glories of the real sport.

I'm sure AWK will back me up when I say one of the things that puts kids off very quickly is being stuck on courses which are too easy for too long.

Incidentally - my kids have suffered orienteering in their school curriculum. elder Miss H. was embarrassed because her friends thought that was what she did in her spare time. It was left to her to explain that she did not spend hours walking round a playing field but ran freely though the forests amind deer and bluebells etc tralala

[FatBoy]

Also let's be frank about school experiences in other sports. Standing around in a mud bath waiting to get punched by the school bully isn't going to get people playing rugby. Watching England win the world cup did.

[redkite]

But some people do enjoy their sport (e.g. Rugby) at school and then move onto Senior clubs. However, the links need to be here to make the move easier.

The kid who hates being bullied playing Rugby, may enjoy another sport

[FatBoy]

I agree we need to get the links in place to help people who enjoy orienteering at school do it outside. What I'm saying is people who don't enjoy orienteering at school may also enjoy it out of school because it's not the same sport. I think you can try hard to make school orienteering "better" (i.e. more like we know it) but I don't think you'll ever succeed unless you have a teacher in the school who is an orienteer. Going back to a rugby example - the games refereed by someone who actually knows and likes rugby were always enjoyable. The others where the teacher would rather be playing football/teaching French were all punches, dodgy tackles etc..

The comment about England winning the world cup wasn't flippant either - kids like to aspire to David Beckham etc. Out of school rugby participation went up because of the world cup win. How many kids doing orienteering at school knew we had a world champ in 2003?

[freaky_phil]

It would be nice if BOF had put something on their web site about the 'offical' outcome of the meeting by know, or sent us council members something that we could discuss with our Executive committee & club reps ...the council meeting is on Saturday and we also work full time, how can we vote/approve on something without first discussing it at regional level?

[kedge]

Its all very well banging on about how many children orienteer in their schools. Its converting this into getting them going to proper events.

When the teacher in charge of one of our Dorset Schools couldn't get his group to a schools league event this weekend because he was away, the parents did it for him, arriving in a convoy of 6 cars.

However, I've just had a local primary school withdraw from the Dorset Schools Championships event this Friday because the new headmistress of the school doesn't approve of competitive sport. Not only will she not let them go to our event, she's cancelled sports day as well: "Just bean bag throwing through hoops" says my informant.

There are times when I despair

[awk]

I'm sure AWK will back me up when I say one of the things that puts kids off very quickly is being stuck on courses which are too easy for too long.

Sure do!

Incidentally - my kids have suffered orienteering in their school curriculum. elder Miss H. was embarrassed because her friends thought that was what she did in her spare time. It was left to her to explain that she did not spend hours walking round a playing field but ran freely though the forests amind deer and bluebells etc tralala

Young awk (rwk here!) also had the same experience, as I know others have too, so agree here too!

Incidentally, it seems to me that the schools discussion is just going round and round in circles - those that think it can work, and those who are convinced it doesn't. At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters what sort of development one does, as long as what you do produces the results you are looking for, even if it takes several goes to sort out. I do agree with RJ that the critical thing is that what we learn is shared - there doesn't seem to be enough of that. In the absence of a development conference, this is where nopesport can really help, as long as contributors don't get too entrenched and negative about other approaches just because it might not have worked for themselves.

So, I look forward to reports on what RJ and Mrs H learn from their own development work. More power to both your elbows!

[RJ]

Mrs H and AWK: .....stuck on courses which are TOO easy for TOO long......

Quite agree. But White is where we start.

Now enough of schools development. Once again the topic has got bogged down in analysis of part of the problem/solution.

What about the membership proposal? Are we all so thoroughly bored stupid by it that we just don't care anymore and will just let whatever proposal Council puts to the EGM go through????

[chrisecurtis]

I suspect the real issue over schools orienteering is really an issue about schools sport in general. I do not think that schools are producing premier league footballers or world class hockey players either - the top athletes I have in my school (cycling and basketball at the moment) have been "in development" in clubs since (before) they could walk and regard their sport in school as a complete joke too.

I suspect that a lot of this is down to a National Curriculum in PE which tries to do a little of everything and does not do anything very well.