The BOF Rules Group are currently updating event advice, stating that the Finish MUST be manned.
I do not agree with that, and from my experience of the last six years of SI, it is not required. You tape the route away from the finish to car parking and assembly. You have signs at the finish!
Injured people DO NOT make their way to the Finish, they go to their car at assembly. That is where your mobile phone is, and everything else you need.
Manning the Finish
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
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I think one reason is to ensure that people do punch at the finish and get a time. One event a couple of years ago in the Forest of Dean just had a random unit in the middle of the forest which a few people missed. They then didn't bother to go and download. If the Finish had been manned then reminders about downloading can be given out, especially for newcomers.
- Tatty
- guru
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Re: Manning the Finish
RJ wrote:Injured people DO NOT make their way to the Finish, they go to their car at assembly. That is where your mobile phone is, and everything else you need.
The point is that the finish is marked on the map, but the car park is NOT, so if you're injured and lost you will go to the finish where you hope to find someone from the organising club.
The taping from the finish is often not very clear, and especially the youngest juniors might be confused by it. I think a five year old having just finished a white course should rather have someone tell them at the finish where to go for download, then risk them wandering off in a random direction.
So I don't think this rule is a bad idea at all.
- Blanka
- green
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What has more atmosphere, a 'proper' finish, ideally in the car park, or a random trestle in the middle of the area?
Appreciate the 'proper' approach is often difficult and seen as less necessary for small/local events, but surely most beginners start off at local events?
What would you expect for a finish if you went to a triathlon, or a cross-country race, or an adventure race, or a mountain bike race?
Perhaps we could have a thread about which approach is more likely to encourage sporty types in their 20s and 30s to take up and continue the sport??
Appreciate the 'proper' approach is often difficult and seen as less necessary for small/local events, but surely most beginners start off at local events?
What would you expect for a finish if you went to a triathlon, or a cross-country race, or an adventure race, or a mountain bike race?
Perhaps we could have a thread about which approach is more likely to encourage sporty types in their 20s and 30s to take up and continue the sport??
Why did I do that...
- Jon X
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What I still can't understand is why so many events keep saying 'Report to Finish even if you don't complete the course'in the event info and then have an unmanned finish. Either have a manned finish, or be accurate and say 'Report to Download'. Indeed, with most downloads now being near or in the assembly area or car park, this is the place non-finishers would gravitate too.
But, I do always feel a bit cheated when I finish at a single control in the middle of no where, with no one else around, and sometimes a tiny banner and then have to walk to the download (and often to the drinks) to see a living person. Are some organisers making life easy for themselves rather than the competitors?
But, I do always feel a bit cheated when I finish at a single control in the middle of no where, with no one else around, and sometimes a tiny banner and then have to walk to the download (and often to the drinks) to see a living person. Are some organisers making life easy for themselves rather than the competitors?
- RobSoS
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Re: Manning the Finish
RJ wrote:The BOF Rules Group are currently updating event advice, stating that the Finish MUST be manned.
I do not agree with that, and from my experience of the last six years of SI, it is not required
So what if I steal the finish punch and throw it in a bush???
Obviously I have waited for a few more people to finish, cunningly framing GG by making him the last person to finish.
I think you have to have someone at the finish, for numerous reasons. Many of which have been highlighted above. But theft is a reality in some areas.
But as JonX says, having a finish punch in the middle of no where is a bit of a cop out. I know some areas it is just impossible. But why not have an assembly area in the terrain. Take the JK relays for example. There wasn't an assembly field, but there was still an assembly. When I was in Sweden it was often the case of having a bit of a walk from the cars to a patch of forest which would have the run in and assembly. It makes the event so much better. Like BEOC last weekend, fantastic!
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mharky - team nopesport
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Just when electronic punching was allowing us to deman events, we have rules forcing us to maintain the old way of doing things. The advice is that the finish MUST be manned.
Mharky: But why not have an assembly area in the terrain. Take the JK relays for example. ...... Like BEOC last weekend, fantastic!
yes, yes, yes, yes..... Let us try rather harder to do this at regional events. BTW was the finish at BEOC actually manned, or was it just overlooked by competitors??
At district events there is a tendency to have download, results display and Wilfs all within a stone's throw of each other. That creates the atmosphere and banter that is needed. Sometimes the assembly has to be remote from the start/finish, and having the assembly compact and sheltered can provide the sort of convivial atmosphere for post race analysis.
Now, there will be times when the finish should be manned. But let us leave this to the controller to decide. If the event takes place 2km from assembly, 300m higher on exposed fellside, then having a phone near the finish is a good idea. Good sense should prevail.
Saying the finish is uninviting if unmanned is crap! There will be competitors lying about recovering, including the person who passed you half a km from the end. And anyway, you have just spent 100% of the course on your own (ideally, probably), so what's the fuss about the vicinity of the finish (or very last) control. It's a hangup from the days when a line of six people gave and took pieces of paper to/from you.
Soon we will have DIY starts. There is no reason to be shepherded through a start grid. Just someone to check competitors don't steal a look at the map before punching the start.
The person at the start can then truly look after those 'novices' who are unsure of what to do. Electronic punching tells you exactly when a person has started... the actual time.... so following etc soon becomes apparent!
Mharky: So what if I steal the finish punch and throw it in a bush???
Don't worry I'll catch you on my video recording of the finish, and publish it on Nope! Sure... theft is always a problem, but then the finish is the most visited control!!!!! And anyway you can use the time recorded on the ultimate control is you have to.
RobSos: What I still can't understand is why so many events keep saying 'Report to Finish even if you don't complete the course'in the event info and then have an unmanned finish.
The sport is still coming to terms with the electronic system. Officials are still learning.... However, there are parts of the country where this is clearly understood. The sport and the experience has changed so much since EP came in. The finish needs a big banner sign... and before you say you need the crowds to cheer people in... it isn't a race where the first over the line is the winner. Crossing the finish line is not significant in that sense. Discussing splits at download is!!
Mharky: But why not have an assembly area in the terrain. Take the JK relays for example. ...... Like BEOC last weekend, fantastic!
yes, yes, yes, yes..... Let us try rather harder to do this at regional events. BTW was the finish at BEOC actually manned, or was it just overlooked by competitors??
At district events there is a tendency to have download, results display and Wilfs all within a stone's throw of each other. That creates the atmosphere and banter that is needed. Sometimes the assembly has to be remote from the start/finish, and having the assembly compact and sheltered can provide the sort of convivial atmosphere for post race analysis.
Now, there will be times when the finish should be manned. But let us leave this to the controller to decide. If the event takes place 2km from assembly, 300m higher on exposed fellside, then having a phone near the finish is a good idea. Good sense should prevail.
Saying the finish is uninviting if unmanned is crap! There will be competitors lying about recovering, including the person who passed you half a km from the end. And anyway, you have just spent 100% of the course on your own (ideally, probably), so what's the fuss about the vicinity of the finish (or very last) control. It's a hangup from the days when a line of six people gave and took pieces of paper to/from you.
Soon we will have DIY starts. There is no reason to be shepherded through a start grid. Just someone to check competitors don't steal a look at the map before punching the start.
The person at the start can then truly look after those 'novices' who are unsure of what to do. Electronic punching tells you exactly when a person has started... the actual time.... so following etc soon becomes apparent!
Mharky: So what if I steal the finish punch and throw it in a bush???
Don't worry I'll catch you on my video recording of the finish, and publish it on Nope! Sure... theft is always a problem, but then the finish is the most visited control!!!!! And anyway you can use the time recorded on the ultimate control is you have to.
RobSos: What I still can't understand is why so many events keep saying 'Report to Finish even if you don't complete the course'in the event info and then have an unmanned finish.
The sport is still coming to terms with the electronic system. Officials are still learning.... However, there are parts of the country where this is clearly understood. The sport and the experience has changed so much since EP came in. The finish needs a big banner sign... and before you say you need the crowds to cheer people in... it isn't a race where the first over the line is the winner. Crossing the finish line is not significant in that sense. Discussing splits at download is!!
- RJ
I still think one person at the finish is a good idea, for the reasons Mharky and Blanka and a few others have said. And there were official types both sides of the BEOC finish line when I ran in - don't know if they were stationed there or just getting a good view?
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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RJ wrote:
should prevail.
Saying the finish is uninviting if unmanned is crap!
Soon we will have DIY starts. !
What total load of crap. To go back to an old debate about whether orienteering is a sport or a recreation.... having non finishes and non starts is fine for a recreation.... sport is about positive competition... orienteering is about beating yourself, the terrain, the course and your competitors. Competition needs a start & a finish
- gross2006
The BEOC sprint finish was staffed at all times - there was someone just beyond it to collect maps and to check you had punched.
The BEOC middle finish was in full view of the emit download team and only a few metres away. They were checking that people punched at the finish and then collecting maps after download.
The BEOC middle finish was in full view of the emit download team and only a few metres away. They were checking that people punched at the finish and then collecting maps after download.
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Simon - brown
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Becks wrote: - don't know if they were stationed there or just getting a good view?
Was this the same view as was available at the AGM?, I'm sorry I missed it!
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LostAgain - diehard
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