Just wondering if Penhale got resurveyed, since it is against the rules to reduce the existing 1:10000 map survey to 1:15000.
Surely the organisers didn't go through a lot of time and additional expense to produce an illegal map for the elites while everyone else got a legal one?
Anyone know?
Mr. Magoo
From the BOF Map group...
All major events need to comply with the revised International Specifications for Orienteering Maps (ISOM 2000) because they are either IOF Events or they offer competition equivalent to international level for our best athletes. Such events have maps at 1:15000 scale with standard size symbols and or enlarged maps at 1:10000 scale with symbols at 150%.
BOF Mapping rules
1.4.4 For levels 1 and 2 the survey scale shall normally be 1:7500 to ensure that too much detail is not put on the map. For areas of exceptional detail the survey scale may be 1:5000, subject to permission from a suitably qualified BOF Map Adviser.
From ISOM200
Terrain which cannot be fieldworked at 1:7500 at legibly presented at 1:15000 is not suitable...(enlarged maps) at 1:10000 are recommended for older age groups.
BEOC map
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BEOC map
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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I don't know the answer to the question but it's an interesting area. I always map at 1:5000 because I can't draw accurate for toffee and it gives much the same result as somebody who can draw at 1:7500. Does that make my maps illegal?
I was looking over two Penhale maps just the other day with Stodgetta - maybe she can scan and post them to illustrate the point. One is from JK97 which is 1:10000 but with the 1:15000 symbols. The other is Caddihoe 2002 which is basically the same map with the enlarged old person friendly 1:10000 symbols. The readability of the latter is significantly reduced. Discuss.
Personally speaking with good eyesight give me 1:15000 all the time so I don't have to navigate a thumb compass with a tablecloth.
I was looking over two Penhale maps just the other day with Stodgetta - maybe she can scan and post them to illustrate the point. One is from JK97 which is 1:10000 but with the 1:15000 symbols. The other is Caddihoe 2002 which is basically the same map with the enlarged old person friendly 1:10000 symbols. The readability of the latter is significantly reduced. Discuss.
Personally speaking with good eyesight give me 1:15000 all the time so I don't have to navigate a thumb compass with a tablecloth.
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FatBoy - addict
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FatBoy wrote:I was looking over two Penhale maps just the other day with Stodgetta - maybe she can scan and post them to illustrate the point. One is from JK97 which is 1:10000 but with the 1:15000 symbols. The other is Caddihoe 2002 which is basically the same map with the enlarged old person friendly 1:10000 symbols. The readability of the latter is significantly reduced. Discuss.
The JK97 map is a pre-ISOM2000 1:10000 map, the larger scale used to fit in extra detail, presumably with permission from technical committee on the grounds that the 1:15000 would be illegible. It is *not* an old-person friendly enlargement of a legible 1:15000. Being intended for use at 1:10,000, it is quite legible.
When the symbols are enlarged (C2002) the effect is exactly the same as the effect of enlarging the symbols of a 1:15,000 - everything starts to overlap just as it would if they mapped it at 1:15000 in the first place (i.e. the thing they knew would be illegible).
What I'm concerned about at the JK is that with standard sized symbols the map will be a miniturised version of the already less legible version of the 10:000 map. And what annoys me is that they've actually gone to extra effort to [nope] it up.
I guess I'll just compass and pace and pretend its Norfolk
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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The reason for using a 1:15000 map for the elites courses is to give one of the very few opportunities for elites in the UK to run on a relatively complex area with this scale map.
The area is not as complex as the 2004 World Champs area for the Long which was at 1:15000. A laser printed map of Penhale at 1:15000 was seen by the GB coaches and was considered to be sufficiently clear. Some localised re-mapping was done and the map has been litho printed for the elites only to increase clarity. Presumably the planning will avoid any anomalous areas for control sites.
The ECSG approved the use of 1:15000 as in the best interests of the elite athletes. The planner and the controller had some reservations about its use but the coaches were satisfied that the race quality and fairness will not be compromised by its use.
John Palmer Chairman Elite Competition Group
The area is not as complex as the 2004 World Champs area for the Long which was at 1:15000. A laser printed map of Penhale at 1:15000 was seen by the GB coaches and was considered to be sufficiently clear. Some localised re-mapping was done and the map has been litho printed for the elites only to increase clarity. Presumably the planning will avoid any anomalous areas for control sites.
The ECSG approved the use of 1:15000 as in the best interests of the elite athletes. The planner and the controller had some reservations about its use but the coaches were satisfied that the race quality and fairness will not be compromised by its use.
John Palmer Chairman Elite Competition Group
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It's not just the overlapping feature problem, it's the width of contours, size of dots in the sandy screen etc making any overlapping colours less clear. If this is the map for Sat then I'd rather run Elite I think!
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FatBoy - addict
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The BOC2005 programme states that
"The map of Penhale Sands has been through several incarnations since first drawn by Dale Paget for which he received the Chichester Trophy. A major redraw was made by Brian Parker for JK97 and later revisions were added for the Caddihoe Chase 2002. The map for this event has been further revised to include new paths and vegetation changes. Furthermore, for the Elite Championship, a 1:15,000 map has been created at A4 size, at the express request of the Elite Competitions Steering Committee ." so if the Elite find the map hard to read at speed, please don't blame the event officials.
Erik Peckett has been responsible for producing the new Penhale map, whilst Brian Parker has resurveyed and drawn the new Trail-O map.
When my club was bagging and sealing the competition maps last week, the 1:15 000 version was still to appear from the printers (who were "waiting for the purple to dry") but the 1: 10 000 maps for both days looked admirably clear.
"The map of Penhale Sands has been through several incarnations since first drawn by Dale Paget for which he received the Chichester Trophy. A major redraw was made by Brian Parker for JK97 and later revisions were added for the Caddihoe Chase 2002. The map for this event has been further revised to include new paths and vegetation changes. Furthermore, for the Elite Championship, a 1:15,000 map has been created at A4 size, at the express request of the Elite Competitions Steering Committee ." so if the Elite find the map hard to read at speed, please don't blame the event officials.
Erik Peckett has been responsible for producing the new Penhale map, whilst Brian Parker has resurveyed and drawn the new Trail-O map.
When my club was bagging and sealing the competition maps last week, the 1:15 000 version was still to appear from the printers (who were "waiting for the purple to dry") but the 1: 10 000 maps for both days looked admirably clear.
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kedge - light green
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kedge wrote: please don't blame the event officials.
Quite right too
"Furthermore, for the Elite Championship, a 1:15,000 map has been created at A4 size, at the express request of the Elite Competitions Steering Committee ."
This was what alerted me. This sort of statement usually implies that the organisers didn't think it was a good idea.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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