I think Toni is referring to the middle distance race with the comment on not punching correctly.
Normally I hold the EMIT card with the display covered - elastic round third finger and held across the palm. When I need to check the display I just flick it round.
For the sprint I held it with the display facing away from the palm, so that it was quicker to read.
BEOC Sprints
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Well done to Nick winning the sprint! and oli on the middle!
respect to GG as well!
I thought orienteering was about going to a control and touching it.. not waving it 10cm (or whatever) away from the control!!
In 10 years time will we see a 'super x1000 si card' that has a red laser on it to pin point the control from 10metres away?
respect to GG as well!
I thought orienteering was about going to a control and touching it.. not waving it 10cm (or whatever) away from the control!!
In 10 years time will we see a 'super x1000 si card' that has a red laser on it to pin point the control from 10metres away?
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Scotia - blue
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Anonymous wrote:turn the card over, so you can see it in your palm, one side has to be visable, and given that the brick is symetrical (?) surely it makes no difference which way round you hold it?
Unless you need to use the back-up punch?
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FatBoy - addict
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Ravinous:'Maybe I am missing some more discussion than just these few postings, but I can't help thinking, why did Scott have to voluntarily DQ himself? He should have been axed as he crossed the line...It is part of the sport, the using a map bit...I think this was just a careless, foolish, naive happening which I am sure he and others will learn from. As for him being honourable, I think it was the only option open to him, if the organisers failed to DQ him...While we are on the subject of maps and rules, it does say in IOF rules...All the above is about fairplay - which should be paramount in our sport...'
this is what Ravinous (who I guess is Nick Barrable) wrote concerning the disqualification of Scott Fraser at BUSA!
this is what Ravinous (who I guess is Nick Barrable) wrote concerning the disqualification of Scott Fraser at BUSA!
- A.BOGLE
'careless, foolish, naive' Three words that seem quite apt!
In relation to what I said earlier - at the sprint I used the wrist band and tended to hit the controls and the system was fantastic. I saw a few people waving the punch nearby but I don't think that saves time as occasionally they had to go back to get closer and that is when time is lost. (the dsq was in the middle distance - sorry for confusing you guest)
In relation to what I said earlier - at the sprint I used the wrist band and tended to hit the controls and the system was fantastic. I saw a few people waving the punch nearby but I don't think that saves time as occasionally they had to go back to get closer and that is when time is lost. (the dsq was in the middle distance - sorry for confusing you guest)
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Toni - light green
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Some BOF rules...
2.6.3: Missing punches...In some cases it is possible for a competitor to visit a control and believe they have punched, but there is no record on their e-card. In these cases the competitor should be disqualified, even if there is evidence that they visted the control.
2.6.4: The organiser and controller may consider disqualification harsh... For consistency it is preferable to adopt this approach at all events. It should certainly be adopted for Level 1 & 2 events.
The underlying principle is that if competitors use the system in the approaved manner then it works correctly. If competitors were allowed to get away with not punching properly, then it could easily become the norm to punch sloppily, or not punch at a spectator control such as the last control in a relay
However...
2.6.1: In cases where punches are missing through no faul of the competitor (such as failed or stolen units) it is clear that the competitor should be reinstated.
So then, was it through no fault of the competitors with V2s. Well they managed to get them to registor at some units and not at others. This would suggest that it was through sloppy punching. All the units were working I believe, there cards were working as a V2 does. So i would say that it was their fault for punching too quickly. They were strongly advised, there was a training course. No excuses.
Nick still ran an amazing race in the final regardless of what happened in the qualifications. Starting last or not, he ran past the people infront of him.
2.6.3: Missing punches...In some cases it is possible for a competitor to visit a control and believe they have punched, but there is no record on their e-card. In these cases the competitor should be disqualified, even if there is evidence that they visted the control.
2.6.4: The organiser and controller may consider disqualification harsh... For consistency it is preferable to adopt this approach at all events. It should certainly be adopted for Level 1 & 2 events.
The underlying principle is that if competitors use the system in the approaved manner then it works correctly. If competitors were allowed to get away with not punching properly, then it could easily become the norm to punch sloppily, or not punch at a spectator control such as the last control in a relay
However...
2.6.1: In cases where punches are missing through no faul of the competitor (such as failed or stolen units) it is clear that the competitor should be reinstated.
So then, was it through no fault of the competitors with V2s. Well they managed to get them to registor at some units and not at others. This would suggest that it was through sloppy punching. All the units were working I believe, there cards were working as a V2 does. So i would say that it was their fault for punching too quickly. They were strongly advised, there was a training course. No excuses.
Nick still ran an amazing race in the final regardless of what happened in the qualifications. Starting last or not, he ran past the people infront of him.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Nick still ran an amazing race in the final regardless of what happened in the qualifications. Starting last or not, he ran past the people infront of him
Yeah can't argue with that. He won the final/selection race/whatever you want to call it, and his start time had no bearing on his run. Hats off to him and congratulations on his thoroughly deserved places in the World Cup team.
However, to be British Elite Champion, despite no evidence of having qualified for the British Elite Championships final, kinda stinks...
There's only one team in Cambridge
- lilywhite
- light green
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Anonymous wrote:Well, I'm really confused now. Are the MTBO controls more sensitive?
I think that emit have different systems for different sports. The foot O system is new to the UK (it was used at the JK campsite sprint and easter egg O for the first time) and is designed to make you actually visit the control. For MTBO and trial quests it is a real faff to dismount and punch so the controls are set to a longer range.
PS this is second hand experiance
- CHS
- blue
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Kitch wrote:From the final details
"All controls in the Sprint races will have back-up punches on the control stakes, which MUST be used by ALL competitors if the unit has failed.
Punch on the map."
Nick failed to check whether his punch registered at controls.
(it is irrellevant whether it is the control unit or the card that is the problem. If you take the time to punch properly either the control unit flashes it's red light or your version 3 brick displays your punch)
Nick failed to punch on his map.
That's exactly the anal point i was trying to make: and had i thought of it before sunday afternoon would have formed the basis of a counter protest....
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rocky - [nope] cartel
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Just for information could someone enlighten me as to where the LED was on the sprint controls? I was using a v3 card so didn't need them but still failed to spot them during both runs - and it's not as though I was going too quickly! Another problem with the 'hands-free' controls is that they just don't give you an excuse to catch a breath at the control!! Bring back pin punches!!!
- NeilC
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Pedantism
Rocky's anal point...
"All controls in the Sprint races will have back-up punches on the control stakes, which MUST be used by ALL competitors if the unit has failed.
Punch on the map."
But if the unit didn't fail, any instructions conditional on the unit failing are irrelevant.
"All controls in the Sprint races will have back-up punches on the control stakes, which MUST be used by ALL competitors if the unit has failed.
Punch on the map."
But if the unit didn't fail, any instructions conditional on the unit failing are irrelevant.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Graeme you are being specious.
You would never know if the unit has failed or the brick.
The point is that you do know - If you are checking - whether or not your punch has registered through the presence/absence of either a flash from the LED - V2 or display confirmation on V3.
If you are checking then you would know you had a non-registered punch and you would then punch the map.
If you don't check because you don't want to waste the time - i.e. you want to gain some advantage over your competitors - then you cannot complain if your card, for which you are responsible, fails to register the controls.
I was discussing V3 with Nick and mentioned how useful the display was as it gives you the control code when it registeres the punch.
Nick's reply to this was that he did not check a single code or description for the whole of the course.
There is therefore absolutely no reason to believe that he went to the right controls.
I just hope he doesn't take that sh it for brains attitude to the World Cups.
You would never know if the unit has failed or the brick.
The point is that you do know - If you are checking - whether or not your punch has registered through the presence/absence of either a flash from the LED - V2 or display confirmation on V3.
If you are checking then you would know you had a non-registered punch and you would then punch the map.
If you don't check because you don't want to waste the time - i.e. you want to gain some advantage over your competitors - then you cannot complain if your card, for which you are responsible, fails to register the controls.
I was discussing V3 with Nick and mentioned how useful the display was as it gives you the control code when it registeres the punch.
Nick's reply to this was that he did not check a single code or description for the whole of the course.
There is therefore absolutely no reason to believe that he went to the right controls.
I just hope he doesn't take that sh it for brains attitude to the World Cups.
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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