i don't think you can say 'only in the heat'.
in the context of saturdays races success in the heat was an integral part of becoming British Champion.
i'm still of the opinion that it was the wrong decision.
BEOC Sprints
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I used the new EMIT system at the JK Campsite Sprint-O, and assumed the system could only be used with the newer Version 3 cards as I could not see how you would get feedback with V2. If there was an LED on the control unit then it wasn't very noticeable. Surely it would also remove the point of having a contact free system as you would have to slow down significantly to see the card had registered?? - as J.Tullster mentioned the LEDs are not the most visible of things, esp. with the smallest amount of sunlight on them...
The decision seems to set a bad precedent. If competitors had been informed that the only way they could confirm a punch with a v2 card was to view the LED on the control unit flash then they should have been disqualified, as they had not checked the card had registered at every control. If they weren't then it should be open to a jury decision, but ultimately there is no evidence the competitor has visited every control.
On the technology side - if the v2 cards aren't as sensitive to the new control unit i.e. they have to be closer, then surely someone on the EMIT team would have known this and either (a) informed the organisers about it or (b) recommended the use of v3 cards to everyone to eliminate the possibility of this happening in the first place. I personally can only see running with a v2 card as a disadvantage anyway because of the feedback of LCD display on the v3, which is far quicker than looking for an LED flash.
The decision seems to set a bad precedent. If competitors had been informed that the only way they could confirm a punch with a v2 card was to view the LED on the control unit flash then they should have been disqualified, as they had not checked the card had registered at every control. If they weren't then it should be open to a jury decision, but ultimately there is no evidence the competitor has visited every control.
On the technology side - if the v2 cards aren't as sensitive to the new control unit i.e. they have to be closer, then surely someone on the EMIT team would have known this and either (a) informed the organisers about it or (b) recommended the use of v3 cards to everyone to eliminate the possibility of this happening in the first place. I personally can only see running with a v2 card as a disadvantage anyway because of the feedback of LCD display on the v3, which is far quicker than looking for an LED flash.
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distracted - addict
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Looking at the final details there is nothing at all in there about watching units for LED displays to flash. It only recommends that a v3 card is hired.
It appears that the v2 cards did not perform in the way either the organisers or the competitors expected, and that hoping to get away with using a v2 card in a 'touch free' system is a waste of time.
In retrospect the organisers should have insisted on everyone using a v3 card, and no doubt this will be the case in the future. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given that the problems seem to have been caused as much by the organisers as the competitors, re-instating those affected was probably the only sensible solution.
As to the system itself, with the v3 cards it is excellent. No stopping to punch, and no annoying bleep to tell everyone within 50m that you have found the control.
It appears that the v2 cards did not perform in the way either the organisers or the competitors expected, and that hoping to get away with using a v2 card in a 'touch free' system is a waste of time.
In retrospect the organisers should have insisted on everyone using a v3 card, and no doubt this will be the case in the future. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given that the problems seem to have been caused as much by the organisers as the competitors, re-instating those affected was probably the only sensible solution.
As to the system itself, with the v3 cards it is excellent. No stopping to punch, and no annoying bleep to tell everyone within 50m that you have found the control.
- Guest
Version 2
Anonymous wrote:It appears that the v2 cards did not perform in the way either the organisers or the competitors expected, and that hoping to get away with using a v2 card in a 'touch free' system is a waste of time.
In retrospect the organisers should have insisted on everyone using a v3 card, and no doubt this will be the case in the future.
I knew that the version 2 cards would be a disadvantge and I 'strongly recommended runners to hire version 3 cards'. Basically Version 2 cards do work but if I was running a selection race I might have ensured I checked it out myself and found out why they the organiser said that people would be disadvantaged.I gave everyone chance to try the new system and put on a model event with start, finish, controls and download.
I failed however to either insist all runners used version 3 cards or spell it out to all runners with a version 2 card exactly how they would work - I only strongly recommended - I did not insist. My mistake.
The protest was specifically on this issue and therefore was supported by the jury.
Like Sport ID when it was first used some runners benefited from a lack of understanding early on, touch-free will no doubt be the same. Give it a while and then the rules will ensure that it is entirely the runners responsbility.
and yes as an earlier runner questioned there were pin-punches at every control in the sprint races....
- Jenny Peel, Organiser
Jenny,
Thanks for your helpful reply above but, much more than this, thanks to you and Dave for such an excellent weekend's competition.
Today's Middle (Long for me!) race showed that the South can provided plenty of orienteering challenges. It was also good to hear other wrinklies saying how much they enjoyed their Sprint experience yesterday. Perhaps word of mouth will persuade others to try ... at Battersea and the University of Surrey perhaps at the end of the month (still time to enter!).
David
http://www.wcup2005.org.uk
Thanks for your helpful reply above but, much more than this, thanks to you and Dave for such an excellent weekend's competition.
Today's Middle (Long for me!) race showed that the South can provided plenty of orienteering challenges. It was also good to hear other wrinklies saying how much they enjoyed their Sprint experience yesterday. Perhaps word of mouth will persuade others to try ... at Battersea and the University of Surrey perhaps at the end of the month (still time to enter!).
David
http://www.wcup2005.org.uk
- David May
heartily agree.
i thought todays middle distance race was the best i have done in a long time. a constant variety of speed change, low/high visibility forest, and changing directions. superb. who said the south was just for the speed merchants?!
i thought todays middle distance race was the best i have done in a long time. a constant variety of speed change, low/high visibility forest, and changing directions. superb. who said the south was just for the speed merchants?!
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bendover - addict
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a top quality weekends 'o' thanks to jenny and dave, even for the prizes!! and if you were using version 3 (large majority) the touch free emit is brilliant, no break in rhythm as no need to slow down at all to punch. Perfect for sprints but would definatley be great to see it in more events in the future
The ruth is on fire
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ruth - red
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first of all.. how is it "hands - free" ? I did like the "wafting" system but think the necessity to check your screen (because it is the competitor's responsibility to ensure it's registered - and otherwise you have to manually punch your map) is possibly a step back, you should be able to just look at your map and waft/flow through but agreed it was easy and managable anyway.
second of all, and second-hand information.. from one of the reinstated runners "i didn't check a single code or description the whole way round" - so how does he even know he did the entire course correctly?
the only way this situation could have been avoided was if version 3 was enforced - with the hire fee included in the mandatory entry fee
all in all despite the controversy and whether he "morally" should be the champion or not, Nick proved he was the best at the sprint o on the day by a big margin so well done to him.
second of all, and second-hand information.. from one of the reinstated runners "i didn't check a single code or description the whole way round" - so how does he even know he did the entire course correctly?
the only way this situation could have been avoided was if version 3 was enforced - with the hire fee included in the mandatory entry fee
all in all despite the controversy and whether he "morally" should be the champion or not, Nick proved he was the best at the sprint o on the day by a big margin so well done to him.
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harry - addict
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have to admit that i didn't check the display on the card once. i just hit the card bit on the control flag with the emit brick and trusted it. i did read the control codes on the kite though. i guess this is a calculated risk; if you don't check the LCD display on the emit brick and subsequently get DSQ'd for missing a control then it's your own responsibility. but i agree with harry that its an annoyance to look at the display. i've got too many other things to be concentrating on when i'm racing.
didn't do any of the 'wafting' business so yeah, not sure where the 'hands free' comes from.
and agree about nick, a quality performance in the final. that was never in debate.
didn't do any of the 'wafting' business so yeah, not sure where the 'hands free' comes from.
and agree about nick, a quality performance in the final. that was never in debate.
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bendover - addict
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Emit has been used as a hands free system by the MTBO'ers - emit produce holders that allow you to mount the card on your wrist and I used one at the weekend. It is a bit messy with a punching start and finish as you can't get the card in and just have to get it nearby but otherwise during the race it was great - just like looking at your watch to see if you have punched and the brick doesn't take up any hand space!
I obviously struggled at the short distance moving back to the old style emit punching because I tried touching the units rather than punching (silly me)and was very much dsq'ed! Not sure what the inconsistency is because I used the same technique at the first UK cup races and at the BUSA relays last week and got all the punches - obviously got a bit too confident and didn't bother checking the screen.
I obviously struggled at the short distance moving back to the old style emit punching because I tried touching the units rather than punching (silly me)and was very much dsq'ed! Not sure what the inconsistency is because I used the same technique at the first UK cup races and at the BUSA relays last week and got all the punches - obviously got a bit too confident and didn't bother checking the screen.
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Toni - light green
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I went with the strategy of glancing at the screen as I approached the control and so did not actually touch most of them in the qualifier. However, I was almost certain that I would only make the C final, so misspunching in the qualifier would have made no difference! In the final I was more careful and touched more of the controls.
I did think about getting one of the holders to attach it to my wrist, but decided against it for this one off event. However, if the system were being used more often at foot-o events then I would definitely consider using that method.
Really enjoyed the sprint event. Much fun. Just a shame that I cannot run very fast
I did think about getting one of the holders to attach it to my wrist, but decided against it for this one off event. However, if the system were being used more often at foot-o events then I would definitely consider using that method.
Really enjoyed the sprint event. Much fun. Just a shame that I cannot run very fast
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Simon - brown
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As Toni said, the system was used for the recent MTBO race on the chase. I thought it was great, but found that at times, especially on a bike that if you went past too fast the system did not register, so i had to loop back after checking the display. it think Bens idea to actually hit the control was the best option, and right as an orienteer, as you are supposed to visit every control.
sounds like it was a good race though, but bet it wasn't as fun as all the revision i tried and failed to do over the weekend (Damn sport on TV!!)
sounds like it was a good race though, but bet it wasn't as fun as all the revision i tried and failed to do over the weekend (Damn sport on TV!!)
'Grab it by the balls'
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the duncan - diehard
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Considering the comments made by Nick Barrable in reference to Scott Fraser's disqulification from BUSA, and how important it is to follow the rules. I find it rather ironic that Nick is British Sprint race champion despite not being able to prove he visited all the controls - surely visiting all the controls is the most important rule in the book and the basis of orienteering.
Full respect to Nick for winning the final. But Im not convinced he should have been allowed to run the final.
Full respect to Nick for winning the final. But Im not convinced he should have been allowed to run the final.
- Dids co
From the final details
"All controls in the Sprint races will have back-up punches on the control stakes, which MUST be used by ALL competitors if the unit has failed.
Punch on the map."
Nick failed to check whether his punch registered at controls.
(it is irrellevant whether it is the control unit or the card that is the problem. If you take the time to punch properly either the control unit flashes it's red light or your version 3 brick displays your punch)
Nick failed to punch on his map.
"All controls in the Sprint races will have back-up punches on the control stakes, which MUST be used by ALL competitors if the unit has failed.
Punch on the map."
Nick failed to check whether his punch registered at controls.
(it is irrellevant whether it is the control unit or the card that is the problem. If you take the time to punch properly either the control unit flashes it's red light or your version 3 brick displays your punch)
Nick failed to punch on his map.
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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Well, I'm really confused now. Are the MTBO controls more sensitive? Toni "touched" the controls rather than "punched" and was dq'd. Others say "hitting" the control is enough; for some "waving" is sufficient. My technique for holding the V2 brick means that the V3 screen is hidden in my palm - is there a better technique (other than wrist-mounting which would be fantastic if it actually worked!). Is there a definitive answer?
- Guest
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