JK void ELITE

[Dids co]

It was a great shame to see the results from the JK short race and see the mens elite voided.

As Im not present at the event I don't know the details, but the message from the organisers suggests a wrongly placed control.

I feel very sad for the organisers of the competition who've obviously put alot of effort into the event. But more sad for the competitors.

Britains premier event is ruined once again for the mens elite. Alot of these athletes train extremely hard, many as hard as any professional athlete. They aim very high and spend many hours everyday trying to achieve their goal. This will probably be the only race of the year when all the best British runners are in attendence. As this race was a selection race for the World Cups in May, it makes it all the more disappointing for the athletes. Many of our best athletes have also made the trip to the JK at great expense.

Our best athletes deserve better!

I really feel it's time our premier event, which could be a great advert for our sport, starts to be organised on a semi-professional basis.

A paid controller + perhaps other paid posts for key organisational positions would surely give some sort of guarantee to the quality of our premier event. Im sure most people who enter the event would be willing to pay a little extra to guarantee a quality race and thus avoiding the risk of a void course.

[Spookster]

As Im not present at the event I don't know the details, but the message from the organisers suggests a wrongly placed control.

It would be good to see a fuller description of the problem - perhaps there will be at the Day 2 race today.

A paid controller + perhaps other paid posts for key organisational positions would surely give some sort of guarantee to the quality of our premier event.

But would it? Professionals make mistakes too. I don't know the planners and controller from Day 1 myself, but they must be highly experienced, and presumably they spent as much time as they thought necessary in checking each control site was correct. Would have prefessional, perhaps working to a budget, have spent more time or had more skill in completing this task?

I agree, all very disappointing for the athletes.

[gg]

I don't think there was much in it, so that the result can be reasonably expected to be the result anyway. It certainly didn't affect me at all, I saw it straight away anyway, as a lot of other people did too. It is a shame, but today was awesome, really long and tough but enjoyable (at least the first 13.5km)

[Guest]

complaint made by a person who took 2.08 to find the control, that is 19 seconds off the best split. So did it make a big difference to you?
Did you really have the confidence in that area of mapping to be so sure that the control was not correct, given that it was visable as you ran into the area?

seems a shame to void the event on this.

i felt that it was a 1st class event and a lot of effort had been made by JK2005.

more consideration of your fellow competitors in the future would be nice

if a control is totally wrong, fair & square, then ok. But there was hardly a murmour of anything awry here, and that is usually the benchmark for such things.

[Guest]

From the previous posting it would appear that Neil Marston was the one who complained - If this is true and he didn't even complete the course then in my opinion, he's a poor loser and complete 'tosser' to boot!

[Guest]

There is no way you can blame an individual runner for the voiding of a race. The decision is fairly and squarely with the jury. It is probably not even the case that the runner who spotted the mistake knew the likely consequence of reporting it.

Over Christmas I was called back by a runner who was shouting and whistling that I was entering an oob area. It turned out he was wrong and it cost me 5 minutes. I was so pissed off that I had to tell someone. It didn't actually result in a change to the results but nevertheless I had to get it off my chest.

Lets face it, we might all do things differently with the benefit of hindsight..

[Nails]

It is probably not even the case that the runner who spotted the mistake knew the likely consequence of reporting it.

'Guest' that is complete bol-locks, it wasn't 'reported' it was 'formally complained' about. (ie write your name on this form and put down your 'complaint' down)

As for the event isn't the iof controller meant to pre-run the course, probably more than once? Who is the iof controller?

Just bol-locks.... and anyway we know who performed on the day and who didn't so thats that it has acheived nothing... boll-ocks

[Guest]

Seems a bit strange that one complaint by someone who has had a bad run and the course is voided for everyone. Presumably the jury had to make the decision to void the course without consulting anyone else who ran on it.
Did they make the right decision given that the control was in the wrong place (by 20m!) or should they have let the result stand ?

[Guest]

The fact is that ultimately the control was in the wrong place, so as soon as a formal protest was made the course had to be voided. Surely there should be controls in place to stop this happening on the showpiece race in the showpiece event of the season.

In my opinion, possibly the worse part of the matter was that the person making the complaint did not have the decency to tell those in the top three that they were going to do so.

Finding out on the Sunday morning that what you had worked so hard for on Saturday didn't count surely must have affected some people.

[gross2006]

As for the event isn't the iof controller meant to pre-run the course, probably more than once? Who is the iof controller?

I was IOF controlr for JK Day 1..... I ran the shape of the course in the morning but didn't check exact location of sites (not my job)... if I was concentrating more I would have thought I was off line when I got my feet wet:)

If you want / need to blame anyone.... blame me:)

[Rich]

Maybe it could be said that the map was wrong as much as the control being in the wrong place, the feature the control was on definately should have been mapped and you don't get courses voided for a bad map.

If it was in the wrong place (even by 20m) the course was always going to be voided nothing the jury could have done really. I'm just a bit pissed off that it had to be voided as the control didn't really affect anyone more than a few seconds (if any) and not only was it World cup selection race but for us who aren't quite at the top it was UK Cup and should have been part of the overall JK results.

[Guest]

I was there when the complaint was made, he was asked if he wanted to continue as a protest as it could result in voiding the course. He was adamant. The complaint was after prize giving and after most people had left. Apparantly the control was on the line of attack to the correct site and not many metres away.

The complainant was not due to run day 2 but his brother was, could this be a selection race incident. I'm not elite and never have been or will be but twice I've been present when protests have been made and it's hinged on top elite performances and selection. Will the selectors treat this as void or will they look at the results, does anyone know.

[graeme]

If the course is unfair, then its incumbent on anyone who knows it to report it.

As you can see from the split times (which you obviously haven't even bothered to check before mouthing off), the misplaced control determined the winner of the race.

Its difficult for those aiming for selection to complain without being labelled a "bad loser". So its particularly noble that, as here, someone who already knows he's not in the race should formally voice what many were grumbling about.

Blaming the messenger is just stupid. Doing so anonymously is also cowardly.

Graeme

Graeme

[Guest]

Were many grumbling?

That was a comment that it was surprising that if it was an elite race there was only one complaint?

[graeme]

If you want / need to blame anyone.... blame me:)

I don't see any great need for blame - in fact I think voiding the course may be the best thing to happen at the JK.

Planning and controlling a big event is a difficult job. Occasionally mistakes will be made, and paying controllers and planners wont change that. What is most important is that the mistakes are learnt from, so they aren't repeated in future.

Although formally the voiding was to do with control 2 being in the wrong place, the wording of the complaint highlighted a more common problem - namely the very low hanging of controls in pits where the map does not allow such accurate navigation (you can be standing at the location of the symbol on the map, and not see either feature or flag). Look again at the splits for the first two controls - see how often the top-6 finishers couldn't get into the top 30 splits there - compare that with the fair controls later on. Whatever was being tested there, it wasn't what the best orienteers are good at.

So, lets not blame, but lets learn and get it right next time.

Graeme