i had an interesting conversation with a bloke in my club called keith who is a recently retired opthalmic optician. He's been thinking about the potential unfairness of orienteering in its current form for those with 'colour blindness'. The perceived unfairness is not necessarily in the map but more in the control flags. He believes that o-kites in their current colour formation could be really quite hard for a person with colour blindness to see when against a 'forest' background of greens and browns.
His suggestion is a new colour kite - blue and yellow with a white dividing diagonal strip between them. This would be easier for those with colour blindness to see and still visible for those with standard visual ability.
He's calculated that potentially 200 active orienteers in the UK may be colour blind; he's keen to do some simple testing, maybe at the JK, to see if his new design works. are there any colour blind people who post on here? do you have problems with the control flags or the maps?
what do other people think of this idea?
cheers
Ben
colour blindness...
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Interesting - we have at least 2 colour blind orienteers in our club - Peter Bylett wrote something about it recently and I just used an excerpt from the 1968 West midlander in which some guy was complaining about how difficult it was to see kites if you are colour blind because they look a sort of greeny grey general forest colour. so it's hardly a new problem and i don't understand why it hasn't been sorted before.
I agree - change the kites - but i'm surprised your man chose yellow blue - because you can also get yellow/blue colour blindness - although it is admittedly fairly rare. all colour blindness is much more common among men than women (does that loop us round to the physics/map reading/ gay men debate in banter i wonder!)
I agree - change the kites - but i'm surprised your man chose yellow blue - because you can also get yellow/blue colour blindness - although it is admittedly fairly rare. all colour blindness is much more common among men than women (does that loop us round to the physics/map reading/ gay men debate in banter i wonder!)
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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colour blindness
As a colour blind orienteer myself, I have never been aware of any difficulty seeing the kites because the white bit always stands out. But at Belvoir on sunday, I did find it much harder because of the snow on the ground. This did make the red & white kites merge into the green and white background. I wandered round in circles for ages looking for number 1.
I also have some difficulties with the maps. For instance, I don't even try to distinguish brown dots from green dots. I just go with the attitude that it could either be a holly bush or a knoll I'm looking for.
I also have some difficulties with the maps. For instance, I don't even try to distinguish brown dots from green dots. I just go with the attitude that it could either be a holly bush or a knoll I'm looking for.
- twitch
There was a lot of discussion when flags were originally changed from red/white to orange/white. I think that a blue/yellow combination was considered but rejected... on which grounds I don't know. But this was a 'few' years ago & I guess research has moved on a bit:) No need to stick with tradition if something better comes along:)
There was/is one well known Elite GB orienteer suffering from colour blindness.... for training exercises etc we tried to draw him a map with the course in blue rather than red.....
There was/is one well known Elite GB orienteer suffering from colour blindness.... for training exercises etc we tried to draw him a map with the course in blue rather than red.....
- gross2006
There was an article about this in the last O sport magazine.
One problem at the moment is that the quality of laser printing is not as good as traditional 5 colour printing and the colours rarely match the IOF mapping specification which does take colour blindness into account.
One problem at the moment is that the quality of laser printing is not as good as traditional 5 colour printing and the colours rarely match the IOF mapping specification which does take colour blindness into account.
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Godders - blue
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I'm colour blind too and I agree that it is the white of the kite that stands out for me, so in patchy snow or recent felling with lots of sawn tree stumps I struggle to spot the flag, even if I can "see" it.
I also struggle with yellow/light green shading, so I don't spot clearings and I'm not sure when I'm running through white whether I'm coming to light green and it's going to get thicker or is it yellow and I'm coming out into the open.
Green and brown features can be difficult to decide between.
Red tapes on taped routes can be impossible to spot.
Blue overprinting can be better than red.
I also struggle with yellow/light green shading, so I don't spot clearings and I'm not sure when I'm running through white whether I'm coming to light green and it's going to get thicker or is it yellow and I'm coming out into the open.
Green and brown features can be difficult to decide between.
Red tapes on taped routes can be impossible to spot.
Blue overprinting can be better than red.
Yes, I am alright.
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180 minute man - string
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My main trouble is distinguishing blue and green. In perfect light I'm ok but reading the map in a thick forest, or worse at night under artificial light, I often run along looking for a bush and then wonder why I have wet feet!
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FatBoy - addict
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I'm both color blind (red/green) and wear glasses/contacts so never really sure whether to blame the colors or just poor sight. Boulders and dot knolls are always a problem on the map, and sometimes streams can look like contours, and as for that infamous time many years ago in Dipton when I tried to find a major track which post-race turned into an index contour . . .
Yellow/green shading is also something of a lottery.
The one comforting thought is that I practice orienteering in its pure form the majority of the time - very rarely do I manage to see the kite before I find the feature.
Colours on the overprint are only a problem when the control circles look as though they have been scribed with a thin biro.
Yellow/green shading is also something of a lottery.
The one comforting thought is that I practice orienteering in its pure form the majority of the time - very rarely do I manage to see the kite before I find the feature.
Colours on the overprint are only a problem when the control circles look as though they have been scribed with a thin biro.
- RichTea
I don't know much about colour blindness but surely it would be more or less impossible to come to a solution which would cater for all levels. Am I right in thinking that you can be colour blind in any colour or do most colour blind people just have difficulty in reds and greens?
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Ernie_Wise - yellow
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Mrs H, can't be bothered to check this for sure but I'm pretty sure that red green colour blindness is linked to the X chromosome and is a recessive trait. This means that the effect is masked in most women unless they're unlucky enough to receive two copies of the X chromosome with a "bad," which is very rare. It's therefore mostly blokes who have the problem, as they only have one copy of the X so the "bad" copy of the gene can't be masked by the other. The point being that this makes it unlikely to be involved with the physics/map debate, as that is more to do with laterality of the brain!
Now there's a bit of pop science for you. I really hope I'm right, I do remember something about that in my distant first year past!
Now there's a bit of pop science for you. I really hope I'm right, I do remember something about that in my distant first year past!
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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This is interesting as there are many colour blind posters( had to be careful with typing there nearly put posers) When my kids were starting their O there was a lad who was colour blind, he seemed to mispunch more often than most. Not necessarily related, but his mother said he had trouble with overprinted maps a purple line was fine but a red one caused problems. This lad has given up now I think he probably would have done but the problems may have hastened his leaving the sport.
Hocolite
Hocolite
- Guest
I'm red/green colour blind as well as short sighted. I can't be as bad as some of the people posting because, once I've found a white patch, I can generally distinguish the orange of the kite from the surrounding forest. This means I rarely run towards litter (It does still happen but thats probably due to my refusal to wear contacts). I agree with the purple overprinting being better. Laser printed maps have improved a lot recently but there were some events a couple of years ago where I wasted a lot of time looking for open areas instead of light green.
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PeterG - diehard
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Yellow/blue almost came in c. 1975 - They went for the current orange as a replacement for the red used then.
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Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
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ryeland of doom - blue
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