Dropping out of races...
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Why arn't the simple results posted anywhere. Firstly it would be great to see easily how long each person took. Then the splits would be a help in the normal format, the event used SI so why the strange format. Should I have special software to understand it. Is it winsplits or something else? If something else can I download it free.
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FatBoy wrote:If you didn't think you'd be fit enough then why not run short?
I was running short!
FatBoy wrote:Simon wrote:I think the question is 'where does the race fit in with your orienteering aims?'
I suppose. I know the race was localish for you Simon (am guessing by club) but personally I can't ever see my aim to be to drive for 5 hours total to a national event to aim to do as many controls as I feel like doing. I hope that even the best guys do orienteering to get round and enjoy it, not "I've wasted some time I'll retire".
Total travel of around 2 hours, but the event was a detour while travelling from my parents (who were also running) to my place.
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Simon - brown
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here's an opinion.
dropping out of races for anything other than a 'race-stopping' injury or physical condition is bad practise.
i think it's important in orienteering to get used to completing what has been set by the planner. the 'challenge' of the orienteering course is to solve (totally) a navigation puzzle, and as you get more 'elite' the harder, mentally and physically, these puzzles get. the more you get into the habit of quitting when things haven't gone to plan, the weaker you become pyschologically. heres an example of why you should never quit - its a long time ago but perhaps relevant?
i ran the JIRC's in 1995 at Mytchett - I had an awful race, with at least 10 mins of misses, including one of 5-6mins. However I had had it drilled into me by my coach and my dad that no matter what happens on a course I should still give 100% to the finish, and at no cost retire. When I finished my dad asked me how I had run - I told him straight up - 'terribly' - and then went off to sulk in the team van. It turned out that my bad run was 5 minutes better than everyone elses and I won (a slightly hollow?) victory.
the moral of the story is that you never know whats going to happen in a race.. even if you make mistakes you don't know what other people are doing, so if you jack it in part way round the course you could be shooting yourself in the foot.
dropping out of races for anything other than a 'race-stopping' injury or physical condition is bad practise.
i think it's important in orienteering to get used to completing what has been set by the planner. the 'challenge' of the orienteering course is to solve (totally) a navigation puzzle, and as you get more 'elite' the harder, mentally and physically, these puzzles get. the more you get into the habit of quitting when things haven't gone to plan, the weaker you become pyschologically. heres an example of why you should never quit - its a long time ago but perhaps relevant?
i ran the JIRC's in 1995 at Mytchett - I had an awful race, with at least 10 mins of misses, including one of 5-6mins. However I had had it drilled into me by my coach and my dad that no matter what happens on a course I should still give 100% to the finish, and at no cost retire. When I finished my dad asked me how I had run - I told him straight up - 'terribly' - and then went off to sulk in the team van. It turned out that my bad run was 5 minutes better than everyone elses and I won (a slightly hollow?) victory.
the moral of the story is that you never know whats going to happen in a race.. even if you make mistakes you don't know what other people are doing, so if you jack it in part way round the course you could be shooting yourself in the foot.
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bendover - addict
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Simon wrote:FatBoy wrote:If you didn't think you'd be fit enough then why not run short?
I was running short!
I do apologise. I must have seen your name in the mp's while a bit blurry after running for 2 hours and assumed you were one of the many on long as that's where I normally see your name. Sorry.
SJ wrote: think it's a bit of a shame to expect people to justify why they dropped out of races - it's their own decision and generally they do it for the reasons that are best for themselves. Elite runners think of what's best for their running not what other people think - that's how they get to be elite
Sorry to anybody who thinks I want justification. It's purely curiosity - I don't understand how you can train for sooo much then not finish a national. It seems from what I can see that despite it being a national and us mortals making the long trek purely because it is a national, the elite end don't really see it as important?
Phil Winskill wrote:Whereabouts in Matlock are you?
We live in Darley Dale about 200m from the dividing line from Matlock - about 1 mile up the A6 from the crown roundabout.
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FatBoy - addict
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[nope]
Dan wrote:I guess that the comment is aimed at me!
I didn't mean to aim the comment at anyone, it just seemed to me that there were a lot of mp's for the first race of the new year...obviously people wern't keeping their new year's resolutions!!!
Dan wrote:Was the M21 (or indeed all of the courses) too far?
Yeah i reckon that the courses were a bit long, but hey, thats up to the planner etc. and you can't argue after all the work has gone into it. Although a couple of drinks points would have been handy.
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mat-d - light green
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Re: [nope]
mat-d wrote:a couple of drinks points would have been handy.
Seconded. Even in Jan I need to drink at least once in a 2 hour run!
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FatBoy - addict
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bendover wrote:dropping out of races for anything other than a 'race-stopping' injury or physical condition is bad practise....
the moral of the story is that you never know whats going to happen in a race..
I'd like to concur with this view. I've only dropped out twice - once because as a kid I went from "orange" course to Badge (M15B) and spent 45 mins looking for the first control (and still didn't find it).
The second was when I was having a bad run and quit two thirds of the way round a brown course (105 mins and counting). I also had to get home to finish some decorating if I was going to be allowed out by Mrs PFB to run the following year. I was in top half at the time I'd quit (and I'm not often there!). Some poor guy was out for over three and half hours!
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PorkyFatBoy - diehard
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PorkyFatBoy wrote:Some poor guy was out for over three and half hours!
it wasn't dikalot was it?
Dan wrote:When I saw that it was 13.4km i was expecting 5min/km terrain i.e. 68-70 EWT However the winning time was basically 80mins and it wasnt because there weren't any top runners there.
Think its more likely that its the 2nd of january and your main races are 5+ months away, you're hardly going to go out all guns blazing.
Last edited by brooner on Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Success is 99% failure� -- Soichiro Honda
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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Dan is an international athlete, and he knows when to stop. It is not for me to question his motives, I believe that he is a mature enough to make the right decision which will be of his best interest.
To finish a course when you are exhausted takes a lot of determination, and I salute all of you who battle on to the end.
However, Dan for instance has planned ahead for this year, he has set himself his targets and aims, and now he is doing what he must to achieve them. And hence, he stopped because it was in his best interest, and I respect that decision; not question it. He could have finished, yes, but at a cost. His training plan said 80 minutes, and that is what he set out to do. If he carried on on longer he could have been putting his health (ankle) at risk. Why do that?
What some of you may have to realise that for international athletes there are bigger things in life than finishing National Events, these tend to World Championships, JWOCs, World Cups etc. Dan wasn't running to propitiate others.
I don't have to tell you how bad I am, I know how bad I am.
I do what is best for me and my orienteering, if that means running M21s the week before JEC, then thats what I would do, if it means not finishing a national event then that is what I would do. My motives for running, or not running, are mine, for me and my coaches.
Acusing someone of retiring because they made a mistake is a very bold statement.
Swedish Champs 2003 Night Race
To finish a course when you are exhausted takes a lot of determination, and I salute all of you who battle on to the end.
However, Dan for instance has planned ahead for this year, he has set himself his targets and aims, and now he is doing what he must to achieve them. And hence, he stopped because it was in his best interest, and I respect that decision; not question it. He could have finished, yes, but at a cost. His training plan said 80 minutes, and that is what he set out to do. If he carried on on longer he could have been putting his health (ankle) at risk. Why do that?
What some of you may have to realise that for international athletes there are bigger things in life than finishing National Events, these tend to World Championships, JWOCs, World Cups etc. Dan wasn't running to propitiate others.
FatBoy wrote:Phil Winskill wrote:Spoke to Mark Nixon at the end, his reasons for retiring were much better than mine.
Do tell. Mharky is conspicuous by his absence...
I don't have to tell you how bad I am, I know how bad I am.
I do what is best for me and my orienteering, if that means running M21s the week before JEC, then thats what I would do, if it means not finishing a national event then that is what I would do. My motives for running, or not running, are mine, for me and my coaches.
Acusing someone of retiring because they made a mistake is a very bold statement.
Swedish Champs 2003 Night Race
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mharky - team nopesport
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I agree that a drinks point may have been in order, somthing for organisers to think for in the future. Although on some areas it may be difficult I think there would have been no problem getting one out on Ash Ranges.
The drinks for once one had finished were also in the far corner of the assembley area by the burger van. I dont think everyone found them.
Thanks to the guy on the gate making sure you had one, I did, but im sure some people didn't. Good idea
The drinks for once one had finished were also in the far corner of the assembley area by the burger van. I dont think everyone found them.
Thanks to the guy on the gate making sure you had one, I did, but im sure some people didn't. Good idea
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mharky - team nopesport
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mharky wrote:I don't have to tell you how bad I am, I know how bad I am
I don't think if you compare our splits I have any grounds to call you bad! I don't mean to offend please be assured of that - I'm just curious to know why the retiral rate was so high, and thank you to you and Dan for offering an insight in to the mind of the elite. I'm not so much questioning motives, but just questioning. I was particaularly interested in why you retired because I couldn't see why. Perhaps you weren't as fast as your own high standards but you were certainly well up. If you don't want to tell me the exact reasons I respect that. The phrase "Mharky is conspicuous by his absence..." was exactly that - you're often on this site and you weren't. Again just curious.
I respect the sheer amount of work you do as elites but at the top end of any sport you're going to have to expect public interest in everything you do. OK it's not a professional sport but sponsorship etc is for the coverage you give because people are interested in you. Get used to it!
The simple reason I jumped on to the thread is because I saw the high retiral rate (12 retirals, 38 finishers) and I was wondering why, then someone else beat me to asking.
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FatBoy - addict
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