Leeds mght be Sheffield might be even EUOC might be
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I'd agree with Lilywhite, too.
You also need to encourage new people to the sport at uni to keep the clubs going - it's no good relying on the experienced, never mind elite, orienteers to keep the uni clubs going.
Part of the problem when I was at Cardiff was the image - we weren't even recognised by our own students union as a "competitive" sport (unless we were on our way to BUSA or a Churchill Cup round - another reason why we lost out on minibusses to the rugby training shuttle). Has the Nope DVD (which is fantastic) made any differencr to the numbers or enthusiasm of newcomers to the sport?
You also need to encourage new people to the sport at uni to keep the clubs going - it's no good relying on the experienced, never mind elite, orienteers to keep the uni clubs going.
Part of the problem when I was at Cardiff was the image - we weren't even recognised by our own students union as a "competitive" sport (unless we were on our way to BUSA or a Churchill Cup round - another reason why we lost out on minibusses to the rugby training shuttle). Has the Nope DVD (which is fantastic) made any differencr to the numbers or enthusiasm of newcomers to the sport?
Make the most of life - you're a long time dead.
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Stodgetta - brown
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People say they went to whatever uni for the course. but say you were an established orienteer and it came down to a choice between two unis with very similar courses. you can't dispute the fact that if one was very active orienteering-wise and the other didn't have a club to speak it wouldn't influence your decision.
and having all the established orienteers going to currently thriving uni clubs is killing off the smaller ones. fine, you may get a few new people joining up but the majority have still being 'o'ing for i don't know how long. what's wrong with people going to unis with smaller clubs, which may just need a bit more of an advertisement than they currently have? how many of gg's lot at warwick orienteered before? how many even knew the sport existed? unis are an ideal place to grab new people, convert them from x-country etc
If there's a limited number of uni clubs, you're limiting the number of potential orienteers. simple as that.
and having all the established orienteers going to currently thriving uni clubs is killing off the smaller ones. fine, you may get a few new people joining up but the majority have still being 'o'ing for i don't know how long. what's wrong with people going to unis with smaller clubs, which may just need a bit more of an advertisement than they currently have? how many of gg's lot at warwick orienteered before? how many even knew the sport existed? unis are an ideal place to grab new people, convert them from x-country etc
If there's a limited number of uni clubs, you're limiting the number of potential orienteers. simple as that.
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distracted - addict
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You've missed my point.
They're not and it's not.
I'll say it again. There's not many orienteers going to Uni anymore. Sheffield and Edinburgh aren't getting as many as they used to. The smaller number of juniors wanting to continue orienteering at a university age means the proportion going to non-established orienteering universities is too insignificant to set up clubs. This is what needs addressing.
and having all the established orienteers going to currently thriving uni clubs is killing off the smaller ones.
They're not and it's not.
I'll say it again. There's not many orienteers going to Uni anymore. Sheffield and Edinburgh aren't getting as many as they used to. The smaller number of juniors wanting to continue orienteering at a university age means the proportion going to non-established orienteering universities is too insignificant to set up clubs. This is what needs addressing.
There's only one team in Cambridge
- lilywhite
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I have voiced concerns over the last couple of years at the near dissapearence of Scottish uni clubs outside of Edinburgh. Although if everyone was more dispersed I do think there would be a real danger of clubs falling below a "critical mass" of active people. I'm not nearly old enough to support this theory but could the problem be that the public now see sport more as entertainment and what you encourage your kids to do rather than something you do as an adult. Gross told me that, back in the day, when he was at Edinburgh they had been known to take 2 coaches to events and that students would readily join up to clubs even if they hadn't done the sport in question before, just because that was the norm.
I don't have the results handy now but in October 98 I planed a colour coded at Dalry Moor, about 30 mins drive SW of Glasgow and remember there was a quite a lot of beginners from Glasgow and Strathclyde (I think), probably around a minibus each, seems hard to imagine that happening now even though it was only 6 years ago.
Does anyone know if there is still anything going on at Glasgow? I was hoping to be there next year for a masters.
I don't have the results handy now but in October 98 I planed a colour coded at Dalry Moor, about 30 mins drive SW of Glasgow and remember there was a quite a lot of beginners from Glasgow and Strathclyde (I think), probably around a minibus each, seems hard to imagine that happening now even though it was only 6 years ago.
Does anyone know if there is still anything going on at Glasgow? I was hoping to be there next year for a masters.
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Steve O - yellow
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Steve O wrote:I have voiced concerns over the last couple of years at t when he was at Edinburgh they had been known to take 2 coaches to events and that students would readily join up to clubs even if they hadn't done the sport in question before, just because that was the norm.
Used to take a half filled at least coach in my previous stint at Edinburgh..
Minibusses for the long runs south for biggies (Epic journeys toSandringham and the New Forest come to mind) Surplus space was sold off to outsiders, which was useful to me later on when I returned to Edinburgh.
There was little sense of domination either, other university clubs were strong. I remember STAUOC badge events , and there being a big spread of university clubs the year I did the Gallopen results (SOL) - that was a job: it was pre computers, handwriting out the league tables before every badge event and using a calculator for the points.
Schools too... Are Linlithgow Acadamy still going strong?
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ryeland of doom - blue
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we may have 60 members, probably about 15-20 have had previous experience, and most are in about 10 different clubs, so to get more than 10 together for any one event is still a challenge
too many other attractive sports like extreme ironing and throwing yourself off big cliffs on a flimsy bit of wood...
too many other attractive sports like extreme ironing and throwing yourself off big cliffs on a flimsy bit of wood...
- gg
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GG, i wouldn't joke about extreme ironing if i was you. It may soon be taking over Orienteering in BUSA points.
I was looking at the BUSA website for details while updating the UWOC website (http://www.uwoc.co.uk) and found that the Orienteering Championship has 46 points associated to it.
Korfball, on the otherhand, (a sport which I had never heard of before I found it on the BUSA site) has 147.
Whats going on there?
For those like me who haven't heard of Korfball before it is basically netball.
Then again I suppose a lot of people have never heard of Orienteering.
Though the BUSA Marathon only has 10 points
Jay
I was looking at the BUSA website for details while updating the UWOC website (http://www.uwoc.co.uk) and found that the Orienteering Championship has 46 points associated to it.
Korfball, on the otherhand, (a sport which I had never heard of before I found it on the BUSA site) has 147.
Whats going on there?
For those like me who haven't heard of Korfball before it is basically netball.
Then again I suppose a lot of people have never heard of Orienteering.
Though the BUSA Marathon only has 10 points
Jay
- jay
- string
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when I went looking for 30 years of BUOC members for a reunion in 2000, it seemed that two major types of people had helped tclub survive. First were the real enthusiasts, who made an effort to get out and keep the group in touch, make sure that people turned out on Sundays, got areas mapped, events held, and tours organised. Most of them continued involvement after uni and have been involved in the sport /other sports ever since, often on an international (planning/controlling) basis.
second important continuity group were people who stayed on as post-grads/medics for up to total 6 or 7 years, and stayed in the club for all that time. They provided minibus drivers too, and it only needs 6 or 7 of them to cover a 30 year period.They also understood the workings of the AU better than most.
You can't blame orienteering not being known as a sport. I'm from the 1970s uni club era, and it's far better known now than then.But then you could use its novelty/curiousity staus to get new members Plus, even if there are more sports around, there are also more students (about 4X more in Bham). A lot of the med students I tutor now give up sport at uni (or join clubs outside the Uni) because even though they were top players at school, the Uni teams are too competitive/selective, (though that obviously doesn't apply to O at most unis now).Many seem to substitute non-competitive exercise (dancing/yoga) instead; sadly they haven't found their way to the O club!
Really sad to hear of demise of so many great Uni clubs. Bristol, Newcastle and Southampton and the Welsh Unis were all really strong in 1970s and the English Unis were really glad for separate English championships that happened within BUSF (women's one was WIVAB) because otherwise the large number of Scottish Uni clubs just wiped the medals board.
suspect 2/3 other factors may be at play: more sports now compete on Sundays (then it was just orienteering and kayak who travelled on Sundays) ; more students now spend more time living in Uni accom.which is a lot more sociable than student digs were. (orienteering was great way of getting sociable on Sundays); because many more students have cars now they don't need a minibus of orienteers to get them out to the countryside on Sundays.
Seems to me that where Uni clubs have folded the local O clubs should be able to support orienteers going to that Uni with lifts, continued contact with sport and its social activities, coaching etc. Wouldn't get you to BUSA, but might help support you getting a Uni club going again
after that thesis, just thought of another theory! running sports (including O) tend to draw members from fairly narrow range of Uni subjects. Is decline of Uni O attributable to research funding exercise and closure of departments, with surviving depts located at fewer Unis (everything else gets blamed on this, so why not sports club demise!)
second important continuity group were people who stayed on as post-grads/medics for up to total 6 or 7 years, and stayed in the club for all that time. They provided minibus drivers too, and it only needs 6 or 7 of them to cover a 30 year period.They also understood the workings of the AU better than most.
You can't blame orienteering not being known as a sport. I'm from the 1970s uni club era, and it's far better known now than then.But then you could use its novelty/curiousity staus to get new members Plus, even if there are more sports around, there are also more students (about 4X more in Bham). A lot of the med students I tutor now give up sport at uni (or join clubs outside the Uni) because even though they were top players at school, the Uni teams are too competitive/selective, (though that obviously doesn't apply to O at most unis now).Many seem to substitute non-competitive exercise (dancing/yoga) instead; sadly they haven't found their way to the O club!
Really sad to hear of demise of so many great Uni clubs. Bristol, Newcastle and Southampton and the Welsh Unis were all really strong in 1970s and the English Unis were really glad for separate English championships that happened within BUSF (women's one was WIVAB) because otherwise the large number of Scottish Uni clubs just wiped the medals board.
suspect 2/3 other factors may be at play: more sports now compete on Sundays (then it was just orienteering and kayak who travelled on Sundays) ; more students now spend more time living in Uni accom.which is a lot more sociable than student digs were. (orienteering was great way of getting sociable on Sundays); because many more students have cars now they don't need a minibus of orienteers to get them out to the countryside on Sundays.
Seems to me that where Uni clubs have folded the local O clubs should be able to support orienteers going to that Uni with lifts, continued contact with sport and its social activities, coaching etc. Wouldn't get you to BUSA, but might help support you getting a Uni club going again
after that thesis, just thought of another theory! running sports (including O) tend to draw members from fairly narrow range of Uni subjects. Is decline of Uni O attributable to research funding exercise and closure of departments, with surviving depts located at fewer Unis (everything else gets blamed on this, so why not sports club demise!)
- ifititches
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then I think pointing the finger at ShUOC is just plain wrong.
I don't think that was what Hocolite was doing, nor was she accusing ShuOC of being "elitist". I read her comments as simply giving an example of one problem of orienteering strength being focused so much on a couple of clubs, not as a comment on ShUOC per se. It's inevitable that people will respond to a 'large' club differently.
It bothers me that achieving 60 members is now regarded as substantial - we used to get over 100 members signing up, and were still not in the big club league compared to ShUOC, EUOC and loads of others that barely feature nowadays. But then, the number of M/W18-20s has crashed big time, so it's inevitable that uni club numbers will reflect that, and it sounds like the transport issue is a central problem.
Has any uni club managed to forge decent links with a local open club - this seems to be a logical way to go, but haven't seen it mentioned. I can see difficulties, but also quite a lot of opportunities.
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awk - god
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Ittichfitches has been brilliant with BUOC she has invited members to her HOC coaching sessu=ions and last year several came to the individual days of the HOC junior weekend. As they can be 19/20 the students are prttey close in age to the older juniors and they mixed fairly well. It also means that you have Uni members for Yvette Baker. Even if they are not super stars they add to numbers and can experience the atmosphere.
Hocolite
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