My experience as a junior was going on several of the tours both to Scotland and Scandinavia. These tours were very much geared around technical training and aided me greatly and my results improved with each tour.
My problem came when I got to top year 18 and was constantly in the top four. All of a sudden I was in the British junior squad with the aim of getting JWOC results. I had little knowledge of this competition as well as many training methods. There was this pressure to perform, something I hadn't had before, I'd always been running for me in the past but no more.
The start squad provides this introduction into the junior squad, they are given the insight into JWOC and JEC and are shown different ways of training and given the support that a regional squad cannot give.
As a younger junior I was never anywhere near the top 4-5 but still got the chance because of the summer tours. However the strength in depth of the juniors now is far smaller than it was when I was a junior (eg JK 98 - I finished 22 on day 1, just 7mins off 2nd, I'd easily top ten now days)
Start Squad?
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Peter b...
I didnt go to Laggenlia and I still managed to get picked for Glenmore the year after and other tours and stuff.
I think it is quite simple. If you are good enough you will get selected. Of course there is a cut off point and around that point there will be people who might miss out but just because someone misses out one year doesnt mean they wont be there or better the year after. If it is important to you that you get picked for these things then with hard work you can make sure that the selectors have to pick you.
I didnt go to Laggenlia and I still managed to get picked for Glenmore the year after and other tours and stuff.
I think it is quite simple. If you are good enough you will get selected. Of course there is a cut off point and around that point there will be people who might miss out but just because someone misses out one year doesnt mean they wont be there or better the year after. If it is important to you that you get picked for these things then with hard work you can make sure that the selectors have to pick you.
it's all fun
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m - nope young team
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Peter B - just to back M up even further, the most successful junior from my year group by far these days is Speakey. At Lagganlia he wasn't even good enough to get selected to go out of 6 other YHOA athletes. He took one look at this, knew he could be far better than all of them, and a year later was on top of the game.
I know that this arguement can be used both ways to prove both points. But I am coming round to the idea that like it or not, the START program is there to foster elite runners. If an athelete has the guts and determination to succeed at this level, they will get into the START squad as a late addition, something shown by Lily on tour this year. I'm sure she won't mind me saying that her results are not always consistent at the moment due to being not as experienced as the others in her year group, but she worked hard to get selected for tour as a none START member and then impressed us so much there that she was selected. It's all about attitude. Yes, tours are great fun, but all athletes on them have worked damn hard to get there. They deserve it. Yes, I also think there should be a B tour, but it is not the place of the START program to organise this. Maybe this should be left to the doubters on Nope?
I know that this arguement can be used both ways to prove both points. But I am coming round to the idea that like it or not, the START program is there to foster elite runners. If an athelete has the guts and determination to succeed at this level, they will get into the START squad as a late addition, something shown by Lily on tour this year. I'm sure she won't mind me saying that her results are not always consistent at the moment due to being not as experienced as the others in her year group, but she worked hard to get selected for tour as a none START member and then impressed us so much there that she was selected. It's all about attitude. Yes, tours are great fun, but all athletes on them have worked damn hard to get there. They deserve it. Yes, I also think there should be a B tour, but it is not the place of the START program to organise this. Maybe this should be left to the doubters on Nope?
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Examples
Josh Jenner
James Tullie
Tessa Hill
Andrew Llwellyn
Joe Mercer
Dave Scorah
Tom Winsor
Jo West
John Rocke
Kyle Heron
ETC
and you can be knocked off and bounce back too. Like Rachel Smirthwaite
Lily Unsworth
Matt Lyle
Ed Cochrane
Luke Parker
There Thats examples
Josh Jenner
James Tullie
Tessa Hill
Andrew Llwellyn
Joe Mercer
Dave Scorah
Tom Winsor
Jo West
John Rocke
Kyle Heron
ETC
and you can be knocked off and bounce back too. Like Rachel Smirthwaite
Lily Unsworth
Matt Lyle
Ed Cochrane
Luke Parker
There Thats examples
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rob f - yellow
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Can i just add before i go back into Christmas purdah that young Neville has been to Laganlia and Glenmore and made a number of international appearances and is not a member of the Start Squad - he has his own agenda on how to enjoy orienteering and getting picked for the squad - or not - does not actually come into it . Personally i think a far broader scheme should be on offer to the 14/15 years olds (those with championship standard?)and Start at 16+ but it is not the be all and end all of junior success. We obviously need more than just a handful of youngsters each year to carry the sport onwards.
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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well lily unsworth managed it this year, wasnt on start...and managed to get to halden and then got on start from her performance there.....so it can be done, i dont disagree with the start squad, it obviously is going to help....i just disagree with the number of people it does help...
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Jene - addict
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I was under he impression that
a) for the majority of juniors, if you improve to a high standard between the ages of 15-17 then you wont get onto the start squad even though you've improved.
b) for the majority of juniors, if you dont get onto Lagganlia then you dont get onto other tours even if you improve significantly
c) similarly, for the majority of juniors, if you're not on the start squad then you cant get onto summer tours (with the exception of Lagganlia)
I wouldnt agree with this. a) I improved a lot during the end of my second year M16 and was put in the start squad half way through the year. b) I didnt go to Lagganlia and went on tour to Sweden in 2003. If you do well enough then as Kitch said you select yourself, the selectors cant not pick you.
Also, for people not picked for the squad, missing 2 weekends training a year is not going mean them dropping much further behind. It is not the 2 weekends a year that make you a good orienteer, its the training you put in on your own, it doesnt matter whether you are in the Start squad or not, you can still put in the work.
"I ran until my legs burned and my veins were pumping battery acid.....................then i ran some more"
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Dan - green
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Rich wrote:However the strength in depth of the juniors now is far smaller than it was when I was a junior (eg JK 98 - I finished 22 on day 1, just 7mins off 2nd, I'd easily top ten now days)
and IMO that's what we should be worrying about.
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Lumpy Lycra - orange
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yep....offer the start to more people, the tours......ditch the squad kit, that'll provide more funding, more people go on tour, thats a def way of encouraging juniors....thats why i got more into 'o', the welsh tours....n i'd love to get on a "tour" standard.....upsala maybe...lol and this would give you more juniors and more competition, closer results again (like in '98) rather than at the moment, i can be 20 mins down on stef but still 7th...
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Jene - addict
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Becks wrote:
aren't they Rhodri and Stef.
Everyone in the start squad wants more people to be in it but the fundings not enough. A little bird told me the funds may go down because of the costly olympic bid. More money going into that than into other sports.
Yes, tours are great fun
aren't they Rhodri and Stef.
Everyone in the start squad wants more people to be in it but the fundings not enough. A little bird told me the funds may go down because of the costly olympic bid. More money going into that than into other sports.
"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you
everywhere." Albert Einstein
everywhere." Albert Einstein
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Rockaldo - light green
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Rockaldo wrote:Everyone in the start squad wants more people to be in it but the fundings not enough. A little bird told me the funds may go down because of the costly olympic bid. More money going into that than into other sports.
This was my biggest concern as a BOF Councillor and then as English DO (ironically funded by Sport England), and remains so now - allowing the funders to call the shots, leading to welfare state type dependency. Before the start programme (and there was still a full programme of summer tours in those days!), juniors got support from clubs, regions, local authorities, sponsors etc. However, it was explained to me a while ago (so may be different now) that additional other sources of funding were not now allowed by the Sports Council. This has lead to an ever greater dependency, which is a very dangerous thing, and leads to the sort of thinking expressed above. It's something a lot of people have been warning BOF about for a long time.
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awk - god
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As I've said before - Neville is not on the start squad but has made the last two tours - We pay for that - if we can then why not others - I do not see that funding should be an issue. Offer the opportunities and let the participants worry about the funding - not everything needs to be on a plate. Why not create a self-funded tour for all championship standard runners and see what the take up is? If people don't want it then they've got no cause to complain!
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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Mrs H said:
As I've said before - Neville is not on the start squad but has made the last two tours - We pay for that - if we can then why not others - I do not see that funding should be an issue. Offer the opportunities and let the participants worry about the funding - not everything needs to be on a plate. Why not create a self-funded tour for all championship standard runners and see what the take up is? If people don't want it then they've got no cause to complain!
That's easy enough for you to say, as the money for the tours was obviously not a problem for you, but how do you know that other's don't depend on the fundong to get on the tours? What if some junior was being really successful, but couldn't get funding, and couldn't afford to go on the tour. Would they have "no cause to complain"?
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
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