The rest of the family have just returned from the regional event at Wharnecliffe. Unfortunately they hadn't pre-entered, so it cost Linda £9 and Robert £4.
For that (very expensive) price, Linda, running W45S, was meant to get a TD5 course - something that is perfectly possible on Wharnecliffe. Instead, she got an Orange course, where not a single leg required any knowledge of contours, and a fair bit was on line features (including all first 5 controls), with just two (very boring) controls into the forest.
At the same time, Robert, running JM4, got at least 2 controls requiring the ability to fine navigate complex contours (i.e. TD5).
What on earth happened to the planning standards? Where was the controller? Did they get the courses the wrong way round (probably not, as Linda's course was too easy even for JM4)?
Quite frankly, SYO sbould be offering Course 9 competitors their money back. I would be interested to hear how the club could possible justify this price for such poor quality goods
One of the things that clubs are g oing to have to do with escalating prices: make bl**dy sure that what they offer is at least acceptable quality - because this wasn't.
Along the lines of planning standards: W45L was almost double the length of W45S (which was 3.37k not the advertised 3.7k), so wasn't really a viable option (should only be 50% longer).
And what was the planner doing offering JW5M? The class doesn't exist.
Planning standards
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Planning standards
Last edited by awk on Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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awk - god
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JM/W 4 : after speaking to my mum....maybe was to difficult. she said she saw robert in the forest and helped him as he was going to the same control as her (45L) which apparently didnt have an obvious attack point. I havent seen the other course, But think that both the JW5S and JW5L were with the right standard and length..with route choice ect so i cant really complain (even though i was out for ages) and def required contours ect and fine navigation for at least 6/7 of the controls (cant remember any others atm).
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Jene - addict
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It's important that you get that sort of thing right, especially at an event that was acting as a junior's selection race for the Interland competition. Although quite a few 14s will have some of the skills needed to cope with TD5, it's not a JM/W5 race and is bound to be a disadvantage to some.
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distracted - addict
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nah, the JM/W5 courses were def ok......are there ne results up newhere yet? (slightly impatient but i wanna know how bad i did!)
but just re-reading the first post....possibly your reaction to this event was a bit harsh...at least 4 out of the 9 courses, people in general thought were ok, JMW4 too hard, 45s (course 7?) to easy...and havent spoken to any1 about the others. but on the whole i dont think it was a bad event or bad courses as mine especially was one of the best i've done in a while....and i messed up most controls but still enjoyed it!
but just re-reading the first post....possibly your reaction to this event was a bit harsh...at least 4 out of the 9 courses, people in general thought were ok, JMW4 too hard, 45s (course 7?) to easy...and havent spoken to any1 about the others. but on the whole i dont think it was a bad event or bad courses as mine especially was one of the best i've done in a while....and i messed up most controls but still enjoyed it!
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Jene - addict
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No, I don't think I'm being harsh. The standards are a basic minimum, not something to aspire to on a good day. The fact is that those standards were not only not achieved, but missed by a mile. They're so wrong, that I really was convinced initially that Linda must have picked up the wrong map, or they had got muddled up at the start, but no. We're talking Orange standard for a course that should be TD5 on a good quality TD5 area. It doesn't matter that other courses did achieve them, competitors on Course 7 didn't get what they paid for but got a vastly inferior product, and yet were being charged a significant fee.
Last edited by awk on Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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awk - god
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too right - clubs should be striving to provide a good product for all ages and abilities. its all about equal opportunities. especially when it costs 9quid.
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bendover - addict
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is it time to start going back to organisers and providing them with the facts that you think prove that the course was not as advertised and therefore some sort of false advertising? is this a consideration for Linda this time?
who does the blame lie with the organiser or planner or controller. i suppose it is the controller in my view.
do you think these peoplewould be likely to cough up if you did go to them?
i dont really know what point im trying to make here, but i agree that the course you describe is not on, and if done consistently could be a very valid reason for people giving up the sport. i wouldnt be impressed if popped over the road to a free event and the course was not up to standard, let alone travelling and paying 9 quid.
who does the blame lie with the organiser or planner or controller. i suppose it is the controller in my view.
do you think these peoplewould be likely to cough up if you did go to them?
i dont really know what point im trying to make here, but i agree that the course you describe is not on, and if done consistently could be a very valid reason for people giving up the sport. i wouldnt be impressed if popped over the road to a free event and the course was not up to standard, let alone travelling and paying 9 quid.
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samsonite - class clown
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samsonite wrote:who does the blame lie with the organiser or planner or controller. i suppose it is the controller in my view.
Definitely the controller. Planners need to learn, and will inevitably make mistakes. The controller is there to sort them out.
Which having been said... what courses combine with W45S? I seem to remember Wharnecliffe is a little rough in places . As controller I tend to keep the oldest age groups out of the rough stuff, which can compromise the TD in steep, rocky areas. And up here W45S is combined with W75.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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I agree that course 8 which all the golden oldies are on was orange std. 50+ year olds are not golden oldies and would like td5 and value for money.
I hear that there was also a control possibly in the wrong place.
What's with the patting on the back syo are giving themselves on their web-site - the results arent up yet.
P.S. not too keen on the map either
I hear that there was also a control possibly in the wrong place.
What's with the patting on the back syo are giving themselves on their web-site - the results arent up yet.
P.S. not too keen on the map either
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Another roughly related point is one OUOC are struggling with. We were thinking of charging around average badge prices for out Street Race, 8 pounds for adults and 4 for children, with 20 pound reduced rate for families. We have since been told by many people that this is not value for money as expected winning time is around 23-25 minutes ish. However, for us the outlays are the same as for a normal full length badge. What do you guys think? We're trying to organise discounts at Oxford tourist attractions during the day for participants but we don't know how successful we'll be.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Becks wrote: However, for us the outlays are the same as for a normal full length badge.
Exactly - charge the price you need to charge. Would the same people who are complaining think it was 'fair' if they got charged £30-40 for a road marathon because that takes a long time?
Not sure that most short races charge a significantly lower fee anway (JK day 1 for elites, anyone?)
I would talk nicely to those World Cup 2005 people though, and get the Oxford race presented as an integral part of the plan for the week, not some add-on that gets referred to in passing. I would have thought the Oxford race could be of some help in getting media interest for the week as a whole?
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Becks wrote: What do you guys think?
I think the issues are a bit different. I'm complaining about the fact that we were prepared to pay the money, but expected to get what we paid for, and didn't.
Having said that, all too many orienteers do equate entry fee to quantity, i.e. how much orienteering they get, rather than quality. Which is why we don't get sufficient yelling when planners/controllers make a big mistake like they did at Wharnecliff (nor sufficient praise when they do get it right and produce great courses).
The question thought, is are you aiming for quality or quantity? The York Race doesn't attract a huge field by orienteering standards, but seems to thrive. How much do they charge? After all, you're not aiming at the average orienteer - bccause they wouldn't do a street/park race anyway.
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awk - god
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