Been off line for a month or so and only read the speil re Start Squad and Tours tonight. Re tours in the past - there were always 5 tours. Lagganlia or elsewhere in Scotland for 14 year olds, some 15,s. 16 A tour went to Scandinavia, B tour to Glenmore. 18 A tour went to Scandinavia, B tour to Grantown. The 2 A tours were for 2 weeks. As the tours were for 2 year age groups it was actually around the same number of people going as of present. It was when Sport England became involved in funding that tours changed to single year age groups. In the past there have been several occassions when people were not selected due to poor results in the selection races. However they used this as incentive to get back the following year. GG and Mharky never toured as 15's. Well done to those who have taken the same attitude. Others just gave up.
Organising your own tours might work but who would you get to coach, how would the accomadation and land access be sorted, who would provide the equipment/insurance. The costs are very high, so funding, which would have to come from parents/clubs would need to be huge.
Which coaches would be prepared to take 15-19 year olds to quote "have your own piss up?" Lots for you all to think about!!
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If I was to have anything to do with a tour it wouldn't be for a piss up! OUOC have successfully organised week long Scottish training tours in the past and it takes committment but it works. We'd be providing a serious back up for those who want to bridge the gap. Not a social,here for a laugh tour. They can do that themselves.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Re tours in the past - there were always 5 tours.
Couldn't resist this: oh no there weren't!
Sure there were 5 tours by the time Start squad started, so take your point, but the B tours were a relatively recent innovation. Going back to the dim and distant past, it all started with just one Scandi tour, to which if memory serves me correctly, each region was invited to send up to two juniors.
On the cost front: the fact that regional squads and some clubs have managed training tours in Scandi shows that they are not prohibitive.
As to all the other bits and pieces, the Scottish National Centre could cater, and if abroad, help has been forthcoming from Scandinavian clubs. It can certainly be done.
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awk - god
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Tatty wrote:Organising your own tours might work but who would you get to coach, how would the accomadation and land access be sorted, who would provide the equipment/insurance. The costs are very high, so funding, which would have to come from parents/clubs would need to be huge.
!
Been doing it for years and it's not so expensive..... as I said before follow the SEDS route. SEDS have arranged training camps at home & abroad with little financial input from central funds. Some trips have been better supported than others but all worthwhile.
The big difference is that SEDS were prepared to go commercial to arrange things like maps / access / coaching etc etc etc and SEDS also had individuals who were prepared to put the work in.
There is no excuse for not being able to put a trip together.... any region or group wanting to do so should contact me individually & I can give you an indication of costs etc
- gross2004
Wow, this is an epic topic - and I haven't managed to read through everything - apologies, and now I'm going to join in.
Start squad - don't know enough about it's present make up. My uneducated concern is that there is a danger of putting too much on a plate for too many people, too young(a bit like Godders complaint), what age does Start start at these days. Can we really pick the x number of athletes at 15(?) who are going to be the superstars? Does this put others off. How large is the squad? Once you're picked how long are you in for?
I think it is really important to get the regional squads working well, I was lucky - the NW developed incredibly and keeps going from strength to strength so it seems, and it is at this level we can aim to cross the divide of competitive participation to proper competition.
And clubs too - but get the regions going well first.
B tours - I've coached on one of these, and hope that the juniors who went got a lot out of it, but can also see that funding may not be there to have 20+ juniors for each 2yr band (a and b tour) going on training camps.
For younger juniors Carols course was brilliant (where I first met a somewhat smaller mr roberts). I've been lucky and also got to go to Sparreseter in one of the last years(??) that trip happened - but didn't go to Lagganlia.
For older juniors who aren't in the british squad - no longer have regional squads (and young seniors similarly squadless), I think it's important there are opportunities, but these should not be overly funded - just help getting things going. seds was great for this (thanks gross), basically encouraging people to orienteer and train. "Going for Bronze" was also really good, and I think the sort of thing that just needs a little help to keep encouraging those just outside the squad system to keep pushing.
Fish
Start squad - don't know enough about it's present make up. My uneducated concern is that there is a danger of putting too much on a plate for too many people, too young(a bit like Godders complaint), what age does Start start at these days. Can we really pick the x number of athletes at 15(?) who are going to be the superstars? Does this put others off. How large is the squad? Once you're picked how long are you in for?
I think it is really important to get the regional squads working well, I was lucky - the NW developed incredibly and keeps going from strength to strength so it seems, and it is at this level we can aim to cross the divide of competitive participation to proper competition.
And clubs too - but get the regions going well first.
B tours - I've coached on one of these, and hope that the juniors who went got a lot out of it, but can also see that funding may not be there to have 20+ juniors for each 2yr band (a and b tour) going on training camps.
For younger juniors Carols course was brilliant (where I first met a somewhat smaller mr roberts). I've been lucky and also got to go to Sparreseter in one of the last years(??) that trip happened - but didn't go to Lagganlia.
For older juniors who aren't in the british squad - no longer have regional squads (and young seniors similarly squadless), I think it's important there are opportunities, but these should not be overly funded - just help getting things going. seds was great for this (thanks gross), basically encouraging people to orienteer and train. "Going for Bronze" was also really good, and I think the sort of thing that just needs a little help to keep encouraging those just outside the squad system to keep pushing.
Fish
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im really not up for this "it cant be done" attitude
what cant ?
im sorry, but im not a wee kid full of hopes and dreams and no sense. yet i still believe in the whole "you can if you want it enough" idea. a bunch of people said that nopesport would die a death really quickly, and maybe it still will, but who would have thought that anything we have done would be possible. and we have achieved some wee things.
no on ever said a tour would be cheap. it was just noted as an idea that it could happen. there are plenty of coaches who would be willing to help, some of who have already expressed an interest in attending. accomodation and equipment is easy enough to come by and doesnt have to be expensive.
im not seeing the real problems here
what cant ?
im sorry, but im not a wee kid full of hopes and dreams and no sense. yet i still believe in the whole "you can if you want it enough" idea. a bunch of people said that nopesport would die a death really quickly, and maybe it still will, but who would have thought that anything we have done would be possible. and we have achieved some wee things.
no on ever said a tour would be cheap. it was just noted as an idea that it could happen. there are plenty of coaches who would be willing to help, some of who have already expressed an interest in attending. accomodation and equipment is easy enough to come by and doesnt have to be expensive.
im not seeing the real problems here
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samsonite - class clown
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Me neither. Orienteering is not a sport where you can run round the lampposts like a crazy thing like Kim Collins and one day you'll become a world champion. It takes far more coaching and experience in varying areas that at the moment those in the start squad just aren't getting. (I know I'm exagerrating with the Kim Collins bit btw).
I'm organising on OUOC tour this easter - I don't see why the same principles can't be applied to a tour for the younger ages?
I'm organising on OUOC tour this easter - I don't see why the same principles can't be applied to a tour for the younger ages?
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Mrs H. wrote:Is'nt the national orienteering centre bloke a member of nopesport - perhaps he could give an indication of cost for accomm, permissions and maps for say 20 people?
Most of the info you need is on their website - £2.50 per person per map for the training, c. £10 per person per night for a youth hostel or £15 in the Glenmore Lodge chalets. I've been there twice (once with WAOC, once tagging on to Oxford) and the time and cost of travelling was more of an issue than the costs once up there.
I don't think the cost of training tours is the real problem if the participants pay their share, it's more that someone needs to have time to organise everything! And for juniors (which this thread is really about) you need a rather more co-ordinated coaching programme than student tours when the participants can share the planning of training exercises amongst themselves.
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MarkC - orange
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MarkC wrote:
I don't think the cost of training tours is the real problem if the participants pay their share, it's more that someone needs to have time to organise everything!
Hate to turn this into an advert but I will:) Go commercial... the option is there & doesn't add much to the overall costs. All the worry & hassle and time consuming things are taken away from you. In my work capacity over the years I have provided top quality training camps for a whole host of people and abilities... ranging from the national teams of Sweden, Norway & Finland etc right throught to a personal performance course for Vets in Aberfeldy... I remember that well as it was the weekend that Lady Di died. In between these any number of SEDS and Scottish Team & GBR camps..........
You want it... then it's there. People pay for mapping... why not other areas of our sport?
- gross2004
Hate to advertise Gross... but, Gross tours are really good. I know a lot of people don't like Gross and I wasn't one to sing his praises myself but I went on a warm weather training and competition tour thing to Portugal with gross tours early this year. He didn't rip me off at all and in fact i got a great deal, he did all the cooking (which was very good) and sorted us out with some great training even hanging controls etc for us. it was the perfect training atmosphere.. (mostly.. except that one night!!) and i met some new people and learnt some interesting new things about Gross himself that you'll never know unless you go on one of his tours and wait til he gets drunk and ask him lots of questions.
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harry - addict
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i know it sounds like an advert but it really is good, MDOC were at glenmore the august bank holiday weekend and it don't cost that much and even though we were only there for 3days my dad managed to cram a whole lot of training in, so it can be done and yes glenmore is very nice to stay at...
- bizi lizi
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