Accessing events by public transport

[SeanC]

Discussion split from the reflective controls thread.

Why improve access to events by public transport?
- Increases number of people who can go orienteering
- Young adult orienteers less likely to have access to a car - increasingly so. Makes us a less aged sport.
- Environmental impact, travelling by public transport likely to produce much less harmful pollution, even than electric cars.

Possible reasons for not worrying about public transport.
- Most orienteers have access to a car
- Most orienteers like to orienteer at times where there is poor public transport, eg Sunday morning, and don't want this compromised by the needs of those arriving by public transport.
- For forest orienteering, most orienteers like to orienteer in places far from public transport options, and don't want the location compromised.

Practical ideas listed on the other thread
- Change time/day of event to suit public transport
- Organisers of level B and above events to provide 'private public transport' option from transport hub (eg minibus or taxi from station).
- Car sharing (not quite public transport, but in the spirit of the discussion).

Have I missed anything?

[Scott]

It's a bit of an obvious one, but we should add 'include details of public transport options in pre-event details'. Some clubs are really great at this and others are less so.

As someone who spent quite a few years only able to get to events by public transport (or cadging lifts), it's also genuinely quite helpful to be told in advance when public transport isn't viable, rather than having to spend time figuring that out for yourself. (Although don't be too conservative in assessing what is "viable" - in my younger days I've happily jogged 5km+ from a station to the event and back again!)

[Scott]

A couple of other thoughts:

• If parking is not in the same place as assembly, tell us where assembly is, so that people arriving by public transport/bike/on foot can go straight there rather than making an unnecessary detour via a parking field
  
• Provide some sort of shelter where people who don't have a car can leave their bags

[Arnold]

Yes, just making public transport options more visible in all event details - ideally putting them first, ahead of car access, would be a big start. Just thinking about it from a public transport user's perspective first, rather than that being an afterthought. The way that many invitations are still written today just assumes that everyone will come by car - while true, it would be really helpful both practically but also from a mindset perspective to starting changing that default assumption.

This year's British and JK are cases in point - the JK has very detailed information on where the assemblies are and how to get there by public transport - plus it at least asks us to "please consider public transport to get there". I think it could be even more upfront about this, but it's still very good.

On the flipside, the BOC page doesn't even say where Assembly is located, making public transport planning very hard. Fair enough, it does have a section on public transport but it basically says it's a non starter. Which perhaps it is, but without a location for assembly I can't even work it out.

Clearly as a non car owner I am biased, but I find the challenge of using public transport to get to events quite fun - my personal highlight was using the Lake Windermere boat (and then the train) to get home from the British Middles in 2021. The tube to Epping last weekend was fun too, if a little more obvious.

[Atomic]

Its easy to think public transport is a headache that makes many venues unusable or at least much more hassle. Actually parking is a headache that makes many venues unusable or at least much more hassle! Coast and Islands 2024 used venue that was only possible because of the bus.

If you want different thinking:

- why isn't there a "JK Bus" which say runs say Glasgow --> Edinburgh --> Newcastle --> Sheffield and back; and Bristol --> Birmingham --> Sheffield. Similarly for other major events. Obviously clubs could organise their own but it feels like an Association or National thing which could be done to share risk, and possibly accepting some loss in the first few years to try to reduce planet impact / increase access to <25's

- charge enough for car parking to cover the cost of subsidising local bus link; provide incentives for car sharing like reduced parking cost, or parking closer to assembly.

- I think Stag had a discount on entry fees for those who came by public transport to some venues?

- Negotiate travel arrangements with local bus company (I think there was a special price for WOC tour?), perhaps showing the demand is the answer to the "sunday morning" event issue.

[MChub]

On the flipside, the BOC page doesn't even say where Assembly is located, making public transport planning very hard.

The BOC WRE bulletin does say the car park is 3 miles from the Hawkshead bus stop. But I agree there could be more details.

Clearly as a non car owner I am biased, but I find the challenge of using public transport to get to events quite fun

As a fellow non car owner, I agree. My personal highlight was in February 2019, when I had trouble choosing between a Saturday night event at Ilkley Moor and Chiltern Challenge the following day and then decided to do both, which involved an overnight coach from Leeds to London and then the tube to Amersham and a bus.

[Scott]

It's not quite the same, but I'm still proud of making it from a non-orienteering commitment in southern England that finished at 4pm on a Saturday to the start line of a World Cup spectator race in Switzerland at 10am on the Sunday without flying.

For the record, I cannot in good conscience recommend the overnight bus from Brussels to Basel as preparation for a technical sprint.

[SeanC]

I hadn't thought of this. That the challenge of getting to the event on public transport could be a more interesting orienteering challenge than the actual orienteering itself.

So here's a challenge - how would you get to this Sunday's 'big' events (regional or above) by public transport, and is there anything that could be improved for public transport people without compromising the event or giving the organisers a lot of extra work?

You have the choice of the following:
1. Welsh Championships, Eryri National Park. See final details at: https://f5c3a883-ba45-4e7a-8476-0e15a21109d4.usrfiles.com/ugd/f5c3a8_3900d54f7e8a4e36b38adc2ab1a89347.pdf

2. Devon, Harcombe (Exeter Racecourse car park -surely this must be an easy one) https://www.devonorienteering.co.uk/documents/fixtures/2024-25/20250302-Harcombe-Final-Details-v5.pdf

3. Ashridge, Hertfordshire: https://www.herts-orienteering.club/events/event/ashridge-ace-of-herts/

4. Suffolk: Ickworth Park: https://www.suffoc.co.uk/content/ickworth-park-south

5. Cleveland: Ayton Moor:https://www.clok.org.uk/events2025/250302_Ayton_fly.htm

6. Cumbria: Rannerdale: http://wcoc.co.uk/pages/info/RannerdaleGaloppen_Final_DetailsV3.pdf

Please be nice to the heroic organisers though.. and organisers this is a bit of free publicity for you (though entries might have closed).

[Auld Badger]

I'll bite

Devon event -
1. bus Falkirk to Glasgow, leaving Saturday, 1733, arriving Glasgow 1843
2. bus Glasgow to London Victoria, leaving 1915, arriving London Sunday, 0545
3. bus London Victoria to Exeter, leaving 0730, arriving Exeter 1230
4. taxi to Exeter racecourse, hoping that after 18 hours on the trot I can make the final start

getting home -
1. taxi from Exeter racecourse to the town - hang around for 10 hours
2. bus Exeter to London Victoria, leaving Monday 0110, arriving London 0615
3. bus London Victoria to Glasgow, leaving 0730, arriving Glasgow 1900
4. bus Glasgow to Falkirk, leaving 2020, arriving Falkirk 2117

Which is why I won't be at the Devon event

[SeanC]

Which is why I won't be at the Devon event

OK... good work.

But err, wouldn't you rather go to Cumbria or Cleveland, isn't that a bit closer?

Maybe even some people from Devon would be tempted by orienteering in Rannerdale

[Arnold]

The one I considered was Ashridge, and their event details are helpful enough on public transport: "Berkhamsted station is 3.6km away, a pleasant route along the canal or 15 minutes by bus (Service 501, Dudswell stop, only hourly on Sundays.) Trains run from London Euston twice an hour on Sundays."

Looking at the details (the "fun" bit!) it might be possible to save some time by going straight to the near start/finish and dump clothing there, rather than via assembly, at least on the way out.

So it's certainly possible for anyone reasonably fit, although for me just that bit too far plus Ashridge is a lot bramblier than it used to be.

[Scott]

The Welsh Champs weekend looks doable starting from (for the sake of argument) Birmingham:

• Saturday morning - leave 6:20am, train to Bangor, bus to Caernarfon, bus to stop right outside the event centre, arrive 11am
• Saturday afternoon - bus to Caernarfon, bus to Machynlleth, stay in the 'Toad Hall' hostel
• Sunday morning - leave 8:25am, bus to Bronaber, arrive 09:25am, walk c.3km to start via finish (which is roughly the same distance as from parking to start)
• Sunday afternoon - walk back to Bronaber, 2:30pm bus to Machynlleth, train home

Exactly the sort of thing I would have enjoyed doing in my younger, carless days. Bonus points to the organisers for providing a map showing where the starts are on Sunday.

[MChub]

I did consider Ashridge myself and thought it was just about feasible from where I live (Kenilworth, Warwickshire). The 8:45 X17 bus to Coventry, then either the 9:44 direct train to Berkhamsted (a bit late so may need to run to make it by the end of the start window), or, if the bus is not too late, then catch the 9:19 train and change at Milton Keynes. But in the end I decided that the Saturday TVOC event in High Wycombe was easier to get to and possibly even more fun, though it's a shorter course.

[willemspie]

Organized or public transport is certainly a major criteria for me when I choose international competitions abroad, especially during summer when car rentals are expensive.
It is one reason why I didn't consider the Croeso in 2024, neither the Scottish 5 days in 2025.

[Len]

A useful exercise!

Taking the nearest event to me, the CLOK one:

0828 train to York, arriving 0846
Miss connection by 1 minute, so hang around until 0939
Arrive Middlesbrough 1039
Depart 1050 (This train comes from Newcastle, opening up that "market" too)
Arrive Great Ayton 1111
Walk 1.3miles to parking - then an further 10 mins to start

So eminently doable, time to read a book in York. But the webpage assumes everyone comes by car, so I'll have to go to the car park to find the starts.

Just have to hope I can get back to the station for 1359. Should be OK.