jk 2024
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Re: jk 2024
Thought the commentary was great throughout. Especially liked the juniors being mentioned. One granddaughter was thrilled to hear 'running in to take 4th on W10B'. Big smiles
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DaveK - green
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Re: jk 2024
awk wrote:buzz wrote:I would certainly be prepared to pay more for consistently high quality events. The entries are a small part of the overall cost of attending and orienteering is significantly cheaper than similar activities
It's an old chestnut this discussion, but actually I'd disagree. One factor in our deciding not to enter the long (the best decision we made for the whole weekend) was the savings we'd make. To the nearest £10, our main marginal costs for the weekend came to £80 for accommodation (2 nights), £60 for fuel, £90 entries (bearing in mind that our club covered our relay entries, otherwise it would have been £140), total £230, entries 40% of the total. If I hadn't been relay captain and wanted to be at the relays early, our accommodation costs would have been just £40, and entries would have represented almost half (47%).
If we'd gone for the full weekend, I had it costed at accommodation £140, £40 for fuel and £140 for entries, total £310, entries 45% of the cost.
(In both cases, I've not included food, as we self-catered throughout, spending only slightly more than we would have done if we'd been at home for the weekend).
So - the entries were certainly not a small part of the cost of attending for us.
You did well to find self catering for two people for only £20 each per night - but you're right I'm sure its possible to spend less than we did! I should have said its only part of the overall expense - thanks for correcting.
But wouldn't you pay an extra 10 quid or so per event if you felt you were paying for a better experience? That's less than 20% more than you're already forking out, and even if you do all the major events its less than £100 each per year?
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: jk 2024
The JK had 2 days on Beaudesert not so many years ago. I found it horrid, decided not to enter this year’s as a result. Turns out it was horrid again, surely to no-one’s surprise, although the location of the start to make it even worse does bamboozle me.
I do agree 100% with Sean that the rotation principle is to blame here. Regions are ‘forced’ to hold the event, some poor person gets strong armed into coordinating, and the whole thing is a bit lowest-common-denominator because despite the best efforts of lots of people, no-one really really feels sufficient ownership for the whole thing, they’re just glad it’s over.
Contrast that with the approach in many central European countries where national races are allocated on a bidding process. There aren’t always enough bidders but at least the races that happen tend to feel ‘more loved’ as a result. It also helps that in eg Italy or Spain there’s just more areas available, but it’s not the only reason.
So I think we need to either:
- slim down the race calendar to say 6 really meaningful national race weekends a year with a bidding process, or
- move to a more professional organisation for major events - not sure that’s been done for national races anywhere but take the OO Cup or indeed the Coasts and Islands as an example for what’s possible. Has anyone asked Masterplan if they’d be interested in a 10-year exclusive contract?
We’re running out of volunteers so a version of this is coming one way or the other, the only question is how quickly.
I do agree 100% with Sean that the rotation principle is to blame here. Regions are ‘forced’ to hold the event, some poor person gets strong armed into coordinating, and the whole thing is a bit lowest-common-denominator because despite the best efforts of lots of people, no-one really really feels sufficient ownership for the whole thing, they’re just glad it’s over.
Contrast that with the approach in many central European countries where national races are allocated on a bidding process. There aren’t always enough bidders but at least the races that happen tend to feel ‘more loved’ as a result. It also helps that in eg Italy or Spain there’s just more areas available, but it’s not the only reason.
So I think we need to either:
- slim down the race calendar to say 6 really meaningful national race weekends a year with a bidding process, or
- move to a more professional organisation for major events - not sure that’s been done for national races anywhere but take the OO Cup or indeed the Coasts and Islands as an example for what’s possible. Has anyone asked Masterplan if they’d be interested in a 10-year exclusive contract?
We’re running out of volunteers so a version of this is coming one way or the other, the only question is how quickly.
- Arnold
- diehard
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Re: jk 2024
Just want to say that YHOA are really up for hosting the JK next year and have a long list of lessons from this year so we hope you'll all come and make it the event it deserves to be. I'll even prerun the middle distance W21E if needs be (wouldn't manage the long unfortunately!).
- JennyJ
- red
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Re: jk 2024
Is there a formal avenue for JK feedback, or is this it?
I attended days 2 and 3. I don’t like sprints, urban or relays; a run for an hour in forest or moorland is what I am after. Having never orienteered in central England before I thoroughly enjoyed days 2 and 3. The mud and the unfamiliar topography made for another new, interesting, environment.
I found it odd that there was no planned site access for walkers or cyclists, although a few brave souls managed to cycle in.
What follows isn’t a specific complaint about the JK organisation, but a general beef about how big events are currently being run.
The starts were unnecessarily a bit tense, and noisier than I have been used to lately. (Quite a lot of us orienteers are on that “spectrum” they talk about on Radio 4). The start set up had Clear units outside the grid box but no Check. Why ? Many people floundered about noisily having “hunt the Check unit” panics. There were two members of the start team within the start grid waving Check units around. Why ? Not everyone in my cohort was checked; it is the Check unit which switches the SIAC SI Card’s radio transmitter on. Making sure that their SI Card has been cleared and checked and SIAC transmitter turned on is the runners personal responsibility; if they haven’t done it then tough, don’t give extra nursemaiding duties to the start team.
In among the cluster of Clear units outside the start grid were several “SIAC battery test” and “SIAC On Test” units. Watching the activity around these units for a while made it clear that a lot of SIAC owners don’t know how they work. The two test units have different functions. I watched numerous people wave their SIAC over the “battery test” and dib the “On Test”; they work the other way around. SI’s technical notes say "SIAC Battery Test stations should ... be placed in the event centre, so that athletes can use them early before the start.” The notes for SIAC On Test say “When coming in range of the station (50 cm), the SIAC should react as for a normal punch.” As it is the Check unit which turns the SIAC on, the sequence of units leading up to the start grid should be Clear > Check > SIAC On Test.
The SI technical notes say "With a CLEAR station, the SIAC’s memory is cleared. With a CHECK station, this process is verified and the SIAC is switched on.” and “It is recommended to programme the CLEAR station with code 1. This will suppress the SIAC’s feedback beeps and flashes when clearing. This way, the SIAC can punch the CHECK station without delay to activate contactless punching. If an alternative code is used for the CLEAR station, there is the possibility that the athlete will punch the CHECK station while the SIAC is still beeping and flashing. In this case the CHECK punch will not register, and contactless punching will not be activated for the SIAC.”
So, in order to have a quieter, less tense, start the sequence of SI units before the call up should be Clear (programmed as Control 1), Check and SIAC On Test. They should be clearly labelled so that they can be visually identified from a few metres away. The SIAC On Test should have a sign saying something like “wave your SIAC here to test, re-dib Check if it doesn’t work”. If it is a big busy event, such as JK, then more than one line of pre-callup units is a good thing.
I do not understand the aggressive obsession with whistles; they are not mentioned at all in IOF rules, so it is a BOF thing. I always carry one. Having had personal experience of using whistles in a mountaineering environment they are not very effective; they are probably a bit more effective in Orienteering because there are likely to be more people about. BOF rules say that if whistles are compulsory every single runner must be checked for a whistle on leaving Assembly and at the start; that is a waste of precious volunteer resources and increases the noise and confusion at the start. I counted six warning signs about whistles clustered around the start, obscuring other signs about more important things. Instead of compulsory whistles a clear note in the event details saying something like “whistles strongly recommended” puts the onus of responsibility on the individual runner and away from the start team. Nobody checked my whistle on either day.
JK are still using timed starts rather than a punching start; this led to unwanted jostling from the keenies as we tried to extract maps from crates. A punching start would be more gentlemanly. I still do not know whether it was a punching finish or not; I can’t find anything in the events notes which says and nobody at the start briefed us on it. If there was an information sign at the start about the finish then it was hidden behind the guff about whistles. I watched the finish for a while on both days and everybody I saw finish punched the unit.
On day 2 the clock on SI unit 94 was out of synch. It made no difference to me (it made me look like I had run faster than the speed of light) but I am surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the post event communications about the voided course.
What are the bibs for ? We are identified to the system by the numbers embedded in the SI Card. Is this another pre-electronics historical thing that could be forgotten ?
Anyway, among our club group a good time was had by all, one of our mob got a first place (hooray!). For somewhere that was described in information I read as being “in the North” we had to drive southwards for a whole day to get there.
I attended days 2 and 3. I don’t like sprints, urban or relays; a run for an hour in forest or moorland is what I am after. Having never orienteered in central England before I thoroughly enjoyed days 2 and 3. The mud and the unfamiliar topography made for another new, interesting, environment.
I found it odd that there was no planned site access for walkers or cyclists, although a few brave souls managed to cycle in.
What follows isn’t a specific complaint about the JK organisation, but a general beef about how big events are currently being run.
The starts were unnecessarily a bit tense, and noisier than I have been used to lately. (Quite a lot of us orienteers are on that “spectrum” they talk about on Radio 4). The start set up had Clear units outside the grid box but no Check. Why ? Many people floundered about noisily having “hunt the Check unit” panics. There were two members of the start team within the start grid waving Check units around. Why ? Not everyone in my cohort was checked; it is the Check unit which switches the SIAC SI Card’s radio transmitter on. Making sure that their SI Card has been cleared and checked and SIAC transmitter turned on is the runners personal responsibility; if they haven’t done it then tough, don’t give extra nursemaiding duties to the start team.
In among the cluster of Clear units outside the start grid were several “SIAC battery test” and “SIAC On Test” units. Watching the activity around these units for a while made it clear that a lot of SIAC owners don’t know how they work. The two test units have different functions. I watched numerous people wave their SIAC over the “battery test” and dib the “On Test”; they work the other way around. SI’s technical notes say "SIAC Battery Test stations should ... be placed in the event centre, so that athletes can use them early before the start.” The notes for SIAC On Test say “When coming in range of the station (50 cm), the SIAC should react as for a normal punch.” As it is the Check unit which turns the SIAC on, the sequence of units leading up to the start grid should be Clear > Check > SIAC On Test.
The SI technical notes say "With a CLEAR station, the SIAC’s memory is cleared. With a CHECK station, this process is verified and the SIAC is switched on.” and “It is recommended to programme the CLEAR station with code 1. This will suppress the SIAC’s feedback beeps and flashes when clearing. This way, the SIAC can punch the CHECK station without delay to activate contactless punching. If an alternative code is used for the CLEAR station, there is the possibility that the athlete will punch the CHECK station while the SIAC is still beeping and flashing. In this case the CHECK punch will not register, and contactless punching will not be activated for the SIAC.”
So, in order to have a quieter, less tense, start the sequence of SI units before the call up should be Clear (programmed as Control 1), Check and SIAC On Test. They should be clearly labelled so that they can be visually identified from a few metres away. The SIAC On Test should have a sign saying something like “wave your SIAC here to test, re-dib Check if it doesn’t work”. If it is a big busy event, such as JK, then more than one line of pre-callup units is a good thing.
I do not understand the aggressive obsession with whistles; they are not mentioned at all in IOF rules, so it is a BOF thing. I always carry one. Having had personal experience of using whistles in a mountaineering environment they are not very effective; they are probably a bit more effective in Orienteering because there are likely to be more people about. BOF rules say that if whistles are compulsory every single runner must be checked for a whistle on leaving Assembly and at the start; that is a waste of precious volunteer resources and increases the noise and confusion at the start. I counted six warning signs about whistles clustered around the start, obscuring other signs about more important things. Instead of compulsory whistles a clear note in the event details saying something like “whistles strongly recommended” puts the onus of responsibility on the individual runner and away from the start team. Nobody checked my whistle on either day.
JK are still using timed starts rather than a punching start; this led to unwanted jostling from the keenies as we tried to extract maps from crates. A punching start would be more gentlemanly. I still do not know whether it was a punching finish or not; I can’t find anything in the events notes which says and nobody at the start briefed us on it. If there was an information sign at the start about the finish then it was hidden behind the guff about whistles. I watched the finish for a while on both days and everybody I saw finish punched the unit.
On day 2 the clock on SI unit 94 was out of synch. It made no difference to me (it made me look like I had run faster than the speed of light) but I am surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the post event communications about the voided course.
What are the bibs for ? We are identified to the system by the numbers embedded in the SI Card. Is this another pre-electronics historical thing that could be forgotten ?
Anyway, among our club group a good time was had by all, one of our mob got a first place (hooray!). For somewhere that was described in information I read as being “in the North” we had to drive southwards for a whole day to get there.
- Davy
- white
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- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:46 pm
Re: jk 2024
awk wrote:As for significantly cheaper than similar activities, what would we have done with the weekend if not orienteering? Pretty much all the alternatives we would have turned to have zilch entry fee
I think you are stretching the definition of "similar".
For any activity to be similar in this case would mean participating in the top national competition or event for that sport or activity of the year - for free?
Now if you mean you might have gone for say an unorganised walk or a cycle ride or rock climbing then that is not really comparable to running at the JK. You could afterall have gone orienteering for zilch entry fee last weekend by downloading a maprun course.
- pete.owens
- diehard
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Re: jk 2024
buzz wrote:As for the Middle and Long - the terrain just wasn't suitable for a level A event, certainly not Middle distance. It didn't help having two events on one area with start finish in the same place. Presumably the intention had been to use the area South of the fence but in my opnion it would have been better to cancel the Middle race if a more suitable venue wasn't available.
Certainly it seems an odd choice of area to put forward for a world ranking event.
- pete.owens
- diehard
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Re: jk 2024
pete.owens wrote:I think you are stretching the definition of "similar".
For any activity to be similar in this case would mean participating in the top national competition or event for that sport or activity of the year - for free?
My point is that they're the 'similar' alternatives we're likely to choose, and what orienteering has to compete with in our household. True in others I know to. My point was also that the entry cost is not only relevant, but a significant proportion of the cost of the weekend.
So, when orienteering of the quality of Saturday's and Sunday's events is offered at £25 per head per day, I think there's a serious problem, and wil only push us towards choosing these 'similar' alternatives - something one or both of us have already decided to do with 2 other 'top national' events at a similar price.
We didn't! Two nights at different Premier Inns at £40 a room - we then picnic! My diet makes it fairly nightmarish eating out anyway.buzz wrote:You did well to find self catering for two people for only £20 each per night
But wouldn't you pay an extra 10 quid or so per event if you felt you were paying for a better experience? That's less than 20% more than you're already forking out, and even if you do all the major events its less than £100 each per year?
I'm not sure we would any more. For all sorts of reason, and cost is one of them, I think we're on a trend of being much more selective.
Last edited by awk on Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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awk - god
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Re: jk 2024
Just reflecting on what I and others have said.
Regional rotation: It can't be a simple 'it's you're turn next region Y' as some regions have hosted many more JKs than others. See https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/?pg=news_archive&item=5124. Perhaps someone can enlighten us?
Cost of paid organiser(s). In the sunny day scenario it may not cost us the competitors much more if a new way of organising generates more runs. Perhaps because more popular areas are chosen overall, or because someone doing the job for multiple years might be more successful at attracting more casual orienteers. I think there could be 'JK light' courses offered aimed at adults - eg score or red aka light orange courses but marketed as something appealing to the people who do OMM, adventure racing etc but not orienteering? Or maybe offer coaching sessions at £X per person in the lead up to the event? Lets assume 200 extra participants are generated and paying £80, that = £16000.
I assume that a semi professional team would be big enough to be the main event organisers only - but volunteers still needed for the majority of the work. Finding an organiser is always the biggest challenge so this would take a lot of stress out of the system. Planners - I suspect there will never be a shortage of people wanting to volunteer for this. That's the fun bit.
Benefits to clubs. I remember being told at a SEOA committee meeting that SEOA used some of the profit from big events to fund the junior squad. I don't know if this is still the case but this could be a loss if regions weren't the organisers. I'd be happy to see say £10 of my entry fee going to the O foundation to distribute to all the regional squads which might be fairer to juniors in EAOA and NIOA where JKs rarely go.
Bureaucracy: Full time organisers would want to control aspects of the events to make them more successful. But in a way it seems the Events and Competitions Committee control the event as they approve the JK rules which (at times) describe the event requirements in fine detail. Rule changes can be approved, but as the committee meets rarely, and will have different views within it, this may not help any organiser wishing to be 'agile' or to innovate. However with a long term viewpoint and strategy the full time organiser may have more success at changing rules than currently.
Going to different regions. Yes I do agree. If the focus was just on making it as technical as possible we would lose out on travelling to different places in the UK, so that is a balance to search for. I'd be happy for a bias towards the North and West though.
Does Scottish 6 (5?) day have a paid organiser(s)? Would something like this work for the JK? What's the nearest equivalent to the JK in size / complexity in Europe and how are these events organised and what to competitors pay and get for their money?
Regional rotation: It can't be a simple 'it's you're turn next region Y' as some regions have hosted many more JKs than others. See https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/?pg=news_archive&item=5124. Perhaps someone can enlighten us?
Cost of paid organiser(s). In the sunny day scenario it may not cost us the competitors much more if a new way of organising generates more runs. Perhaps because more popular areas are chosen overall, or because someone doing the job for multiple years might be more successful at attracting more casual orienteers. I think there could be 'JK light' courses offered aimed at adults - eg score or red aka light orange courses but marketed as something appealing to the people who do OMM, adventure racing etc but not orienteering? Or maybe offer coaching sessions at £X per person in the lead up to the event? Lets assume 200 extra participants are generated and paying £80, that = £16000.
I assume that a semi professional team would be big enough to be the main event organisers only - but volunteers still needed for the majority of the work. Finding an organiser is always the biggest challenge so this would take a lot of stress out of the system. Planners - I suspect there will never be a shortage of people wanting to volunteer for this. That's the fun bit.
Benefits to clubs. I remember being told at a SEOA committee meeting that SEOA used some of the profit from big events to fund the junior squad. I don't know if this is still the case but this could be a loss if regions weren't the organisers. I'd be happy to see say £10 of my entry fee going to the O foundation to distribute to all the regional squads which might be fairer to juniors in EAOA and NIOA where JKs rarely go.
Bureaucracy: Full time organisers would want to control aspects of the events to make them more successful. But in a way it seems the Events and Competitions Committee control the event as they approve the JK rules which (at times) describe the event requirements in fine detail. Rule changes can be approved, but as the committee meets rarely, and will have different views within it, this may not help any organiser wishing to be 'agile' or to innovate. However with a long term viewpoint and strategy the full time organiser may have more success at changing rules than currently.
Going to different regions. Yes I do agree. If the focus was just on making it as technical as possible we would lose out on travelling to different places in the UK, so that is a balance to search for. I'd be happy for a bias towards the North and West though.
Does Scottish 6 (5?) day have a paid organiser(s)? Would something like this work for the JK? What's the nearest equivalent to the JK in size / complexity in Europe and how are these events organised and what to competitors pay and get for their money?
- SeanC
- god
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Re: jk 2024
I'm not sure that the majority of participants really see it as the top national competition, or even 2nd. Nowadays it is usually the only event on over Easter weekend, so orienteering wise it is that or nothing. Perhaps 10% of people have a chance of making a podium; the others are just there for (usually) a good event. Not sure if alternative events are allowed on that weekend any more, but if any are JK entries would probably be significantly down.pete.owens wrote:awk wrote:As for significantly cheaper than similar activities, what would we have done with the weekend if not orienteering? Pretty much all the alternatives we would have turned to have zilch entry fee
I think you are stretching the definition of "similar".
For any activity to be similar in this case would mean participating in the top national competition or event for that sport or activity of the year - for free?...
Numbers are already perhaps 50% of 30 years ago. With paid organisers and probably higher entry fees there would probably a risk of entries reducing further
- Snail
- diehard
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Re: jk 2024
Maybe a semi-professional team might be allowed to simplify the relays too? They are better than they once were, but are still too restrictive and complicated (or, at least, the presentation of them is). Having said that, the British Relays are distinctly worse!
(this is no reflection on the organisers/planners, who I thought did a great job!).
(this is no reflection on the organisers/planners, who I thought did a great job!).
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awk - god
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Re: jk 2024
Arnold, when I read comments like "lowest common denominator" used about the JK I wonder which year(s) you are basing this on?
Then you comment about some poor person being strong armed into coordinating and being pleased it's all over. In 2023 I took on the role willingly and yes I was pleased when it was over but not for the reasons you give. I was pleased because we had 4 good days and the feedback from the vast majority was positive; pleased that the NWOA had pulled together and delivered a quality event.
I think you misjudge the commitment the regions have shown.
The JK is an important revenue stream for BO. Using a semi professional team will reduce what BO get, or even wipe it out completely, unless entry fees go up, which few would welcome. Or, put up membership fees to cover the shortfall.
JennyJ, looking forward to next year
Then you comment about some poor person being strong armed into coordinating and being pleased it's all over. In 2023 I took on the role willingly and yes I was pleased when it was over but not for the reasons you give. I was pleased because we had 4 good days and the feedback from the vast majority was positive; pleased that the NWOA had pulled together and delivered a quality event.
I think you misjudge the commitment the regions have shown.
The JK is an important revenue stream for BO. Using a semi professional team will reduce what BO get, or even wipe it out completely, unless entry fees go up, which few would welcome. Or, put up membership fees to cover the shortfall.
JennyJ, looking forward to next year
- DM
- brown
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Re: jk 2024
Can I ask what all the motorhome drivers & familes did for the relays? We didnt go to the event, but the arrangements for the 30+ or so vehicles affected seemed a bit light. Basically we can't accommodate you so make your own arrangements. What did folk do?
Run 'in' forests, run
- forest grump
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Re: jk 2024
I am not sure I understand the point of professional or semi-professional organisation. Everybody seems to acknowledge that the event will continue to rely mostly on volunteers, so it will not reduce the burden on them much. Will it improve the "quality"? In what sense? Most complaints seem to be about the quality of the terrain, not the quality of the organisation. We can have the JK in fewer regions with higher-quality terrains without professional organisation, IF enough VOLUNTEERS are found, this has little do with professional organisation. Will professional organisation attract more participants for reasons independent of the terrain quality? Why and how exactly?
- MChub
- off string
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Re: jk 2024
Davy wrote:The starts were unnecessarily a bit tense, and noisier than I have been used to lately. (Quite a lot of us orienteers are on that “spectrum” they talk about on Radio 4). The start set up had Clear units outside the grid box but no Check. Why ? Many people floundered about noisily having “hunt the Check unit” panics. There were two members of the start team within the start grid waving Check units around. Why?
[snip]
So, in order to have a quieter, less tense, start the sequence of SI units before the call up should be Clear (programmed as Control 1), Check and SIAC On Test. They should be clearly labelled so that they can be visually identified from a few metres away. The SIAC On Test should have a sign saying something like “wave your SIAC here to test, re-dib Check if it doesn’t work”. If it is a big busy event, such as JK, then more than one line of pre-callup units is a good thing.
Agreed, the layout of pre-start boxes was poor (was better at the sprint - but quite a few people didn't see the blue clear boxes attached to a blue fence!). Clears were all in a clump so they could not all be used simultaneously and a SIAC On test next to them makes no sense without a check. It's not like there was a shortage of space! The SIAC On test should have its hole taped over to make it clear it is not to be physically dibbed.
There should also be a check in the start lane to a) make sure (remember these are crucial for safety reasons with a timed-start) and b) to give one more opportunity to be checked you are in the right start box for your time.
Davy wrote:JK are still using timed starts rather than a punching start; this led to unwanted jostling from the keenies as we tried to extract maps from crates.
On each day, we self-organised ourselves left to right in the start box after swapping course numbers. It worked well and there was no jostling. The same cannot be said for the path from the start kite however...
Davy wrote:What are the bibs for ? We are identified to the system by the numbers embedded in the SI Card. Is this another pre-electronics historical thing that could be forgotten ?
For a timed start, the bibs allow checking that you are starting at right time. Also, just generally helpful as a reference for start time and course.
Davy wrote:I still do not know whether it was a punching finish or not; I can’t find anything in the events notes which says and nobody at the start briefed us on it. If there was an information sign at the start about the finish then it was hidden behind the guff about whistles. I watched the finish for a while on both days and everybody I saw finish punched the unit.
Agreed, it should have been clearer. I asked a previous runner at the sprint as it was not in the Finish section of the final details for that event. I had only printed the pages for the events and not the general stuff at the start, but it was covered at the top of page 3in the general section now that I check back (The finish will be in beacon mode so those with SIAC can 'punch' touch free). This should have been replicated for each event to avoid doubt.
Davy wrote:On day 2 the clock on SI unit 94 was out of synch. It made no difference to me (it made me look like I had run faster than the speed of light) but I am surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the post event communications about the voided course.
It will have been corrected, so would only have shown in your splits printout.
Also, what post-event communications? There are no comments on the JK website except for the bare minimum on the news page and even the link to the relay results is broken. For the record, the relay results are here:
https://www.sportident.co.uk/results/JK/2024/Relay/
- sborrill
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