Two regional championships are taking place over the next two weekends.
The Welsh Championships https://swoc.org.uk/?p=3256 are taking place at Pwll Ddu on Sunday. There are currently 247 entries, which is about the going rate for the Welsh Champs. But it’s a disappointing turn-out for an event on a cracking area. Entries remain open until Friday, and I am sure the organisers would welcome a few more entries …
The Midland Championships are taking place at Sandringham on Saturday 9th March. Entries have now closed, so I have not bothered including a hotlink. There are 363 entries, which has to be a pretty disappointing entry for an event of this calibre. Sandringham isn’t that far from the major conurbations of central England, or even from London. And there is precious little else on in England that weekend - just local events plus a regional event associated with the Midland Championships. I cannot help feeling that the organisers missed a trick by not allowing late entries, even entries which excluded late entrants from eligibility for the Championships.
So where is everyone?
Where is everyone?
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Re: Where is everyone?
Alun wrote:And there is precious little else on in England that weekend
I'm not sure if that's true. Just looking at Sunday there is:
- CLOK middle distance event
- KERNO Penhale Sands
- Sprint event in Blackburn
- EMOA league event Shipley
- SAX national event Knole Park, Sevenoaks
The latter 2 will be competition for the midland championships from neighbouring regions.
The good news is that entries to Knole Park will be open until Saturday. If you've not been there, it's a medieval deer park with the courses biased towards the forested areas - which are lovely since they took down the internal deer fencing.
Good options for those coming via public transport or who want to make a day of it. Fast trains from London, 1 mile from the station. Leisure Centre next to assembly for post event wash/swim. Lots of food options in Sevenoaks or Knole House.
- SeanC
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Re: Where is everyone?
I think the "precious little else" comment referred to the following (Sandringham) weekend, not this weekend.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: Where is everyone?
Ah fair enough. But at least it was an excuse to plug my club's event
With the tendency of regional/national events like our Knole Park event to offer pre-entry later and later, there might be a problem for big events that require pre-entry earlier than is typical. If the big event is the JK, British etc then people will be looking out for closing dates as it will be a stand out event in the calendar, but for the next tier down events like the Midland Champs and Welsh Champs, I suspect many will only notice these the weekend before the event, which if the entries have already closed will reduce the numbers.
With the tendency of regional/national events like our Knole Park event to offer pre-entry later and later, there might be a problem for big events that require pre-entry earlier than is typical. If the big event is the JK, British etc then people will be looking out for closing dates as it will be a stand out event in the calendar, but for the next tier down events like the Midland Champs and Welsh Champs, I suspect many will only notice these the weekend before the event, which if the entries have already closed will reduce the numbers.
- SeanC
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Re: Where is everyone?
And if you want a 'proper' run out on TD5 there is an event the day before the Welsh Champs at Mynydd Y Garn (better area IMO than Pwll Ddu) - only has 74 competitors
https://www.sboc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#33
Good practise for CROESO!
Vested interest as controller
https://www.sboc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#33
Good practise for CROESO!
Vested interest as controller
- Dewi
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Re: Where is everyone?
Alun wrote:The Midland Championships are taking place at Sandringham on Saturday 9th March. Entries have now closed. I cannot help feeling that the organisers missed a trick by not allowing late entries
The rules state that seeding is required which takes a while to sort, hence the earlier than usual closing date.
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HarryO - orange
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Re: Where is everyone?
Well, this is what you missed:
https://www.sboc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#67
https://www.sboc.org.uk/wc2024-rpt
https://www.sboc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#67
https://www.sboc.org.uk/wc2024-rpt
- Dewi
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Re: Where is everyone?
The main problem is that the definition of “everyone” is shrinking by the year, combined with the fact that there are still way too many “big” events happening with not enough punters to chase.
Plus Sandringham and Pwll Du are pretty far away from major conurbations.
I’m sure the events were lovely but putting them on for 2-300 people just can’t be sustainable in the long run.
Plus Sandringham and Pwll Du are pretty far away from major conurbations.
I’m sure the events were lovely but putting them on for 2-300 people just can’t be sustainable in the long run.
- Arnold
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Re: Where is everyone?
Arnold wrote:The main problem is that the definition of “everyone” is shrinking by the year
Perhaps we can stop put all the sport's eggs in the "focus solely on juniors" basket then?
I've never seen any other sport that puts such a single-minded focus on attracting only juniors and with the aim being solely on being better at international competition.
To me, it's bonkers.
Junior development is important, but it cannot be everything. Particularly since it is well known that retention of juniors (in all sports) is a problem with the dropout rate as teenagers approach 18.
If you want a healthy sport, we need a much wider base of the pyramid and start by attracting *lots* of new orienteers at *all* ages. Juniors are unlikely to organisers, planners, controllers of the future (some will, but many will drop out) - it's the 'young' adults that the sport attracts that are far more likely to go on to volunteer - because if they take up the sport as an adult, they're doing because they *really* want to.
- rf_fozzy
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Re: Where is everyone?
And if you want to attract the 'young' adult demographic,you need to hold events in easy to reach locations.
Which means urbans, parks, sprints etc.
But, as posted elsewhere, this isn't "proper" orienteering of course.
Which means urbans, parks, sprints etc.
But, as posted elsewhere, this isn't "proper" orienteering of course.
- rf_fozzy
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Re: Where is everyone?
I don't see why 200-300 people isn't a sustainable number for a big event... so long as the expenses are trimmed to suit and the entry fees appropriate.
With less orienteers there will inevitably be less 'big' events though I agree with that as there will be less people able to organise and plan.
Sandringham / Midland Champs. No-one on my club is going, but it's not really far - 2 and a half hours in a car. I think being on a Saturday doesn't help - lots of clubs have Saturday events. We have an event at Kings Wood which is a decent area so hard to justify a big drive when this local event is on the doorstep.
Sandringham is an example of what could be done though - eg only 2 hours from London on the train to Kings Lynn and if car sharing options (like the one used by racesignup) were more widely used then car driving orienteers could pick up the train arrivees from there. Or there could be more car sharing etc then meeting up afterwards for food/social. SLOW were a good case for doing this sort of thing which helped with their numbers of younger adult orienteers.
With less orienteers there will inevitably be less 'big' events though I agree with that as there will be less people able to organise and plan.
Sandringham / Midland Champs. No-one on my club is going, but it's not really far - 2 and a half hours in a car. I think being on a Saturday doesn't help - lots of clubs have Saturday events. We have an event at Kings Wood which is a decent area so hard to justify a big drive when this local event is on the doorstep.
Sandringham is an example of what could be done though - eg only 2 hours from London on the train to Kings Lynn and if car sharing options (like the one used by racesignup) were more widely used then car driving orienteers could pick up the train arrivees from there. Or there could be more car sharing etc then meeting up afterwards for food/social. SLOW were a good case for doing this sort of thing which helped with their numbers of younger adult orienteers.
- SeanC
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Re: Where is everyone?
rf_fozzy wrote:And if you want to attract the 'young' adult demographic,you need to hold events in easy to reach locations.
Which means urbans, parks, sprints etc.
But, as posted elsewhere, this isn't "proper" orienteering of course.
Bingo. Orienteering either accepts this, or continues to make niche complaints in a niche sport, and dies. It's heading one way at the moment.
- Len
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Re: Where is everyone?
SeanC wrote:I don't see why 200-300 people isn't a sustainable number for a big event... so long as the expenses are trimmed to suit and the entry fees appropriate.
And there are fewer courses.
SeanC wrote:Sandringham is an example of what could be done though - eg only 2 hours from London on the train to Kings Lynn and if car sharing options (like the one used by racesignup) were more widely used then car driving orienteers could pick up the train arrivees from there.
Car sharing is a nice idea on paper, but I'd only really consider a car share with someone I know, and I doubt I am alone in that.
- Len
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Re: Where is everyone?
The entry demographic on CROESO entries (still early days I accept) makes interesting reading.
https://www.fabian4.co.uk/start/list.aspx?EventID=3617
M21L - 20 entries
M70L - 42 entries
M75L - 33 entries
W21L - 19 entries
W70L - 25 entries
W75L - 16 entries
What does that tell us?
Maybe mutlidays are not a thing for the under 35s? Too many conflicting high profile events (there is a WOC on).
Does course planning need to pivot to the needs of older age groups. I know there was some comments on the M80 (Short Green) at Pwll Ddu?
https://www.fabian4.co.uk/start/list.aspx?EventID=3617
M21L - 20 entries
M70L - 42 entries
M75L - 33 entries
W21L - 19 entries
W70L - 25 entries
W75L - 16 entries
What does that tell us?
Maybe mutlidays are not a thing for the under 35s? Too many conflicting high profile events (there is a WOC on).
Does course planning need to pivot to the needs of older age groups. I know there was some comments on the M80 (Short Green) at Pwll Ddu?
- Dewi
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Re: Where is everyone?
Dewi wrote:
What does that tell us?
Not a lot.
- rf_fozzy
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