In the YHOA superleague there are 'standard' age classes but you can score points on any course, running up or running down. But I don't think that's always how it's presented.
Overall I agree that we should emphasise 'run the course you want', with league and age-class stuff secondary.
Urban Course Lengths
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
The 2 national leagues - UKOL & UKUL (and the regional urban leagues)- both expect you to run your designated age-class course.
You can always run up (longer) and you will still score points, but as if in the age-class in which you run. Your points will not be combined across age classes. For club points / rankings in UKOL you will be seen as if 2 separate people and therefore if frequently alternating between classes neither of you is likely to count for your club.
You can also run down, but in that case you will not score any league points.
You can always run up (longer) and you will still score points, but as if in the age-class in which you run. Your points will not be combined across age classes. For club points / rankings in UKOL you will be seen as if 2 separate people and therefore if frequently alternating between classes neither of you is likely to count for your club.
You can also run down, but in that case you will not score any league points.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
UKOL - maybe that's the thing. It's a national league - clearly aimed at experienced competitive orienteers at a select few big events. And the events are primarily described as separate events eg the 'Brambleworthy National Event' not the UKOL league event 1 etc. A small number of events too.
The urban league - the pressure to run a longer distance is not so damaging at urban since the less experienced orienteer is not that likely to have multiple 20 minute control attempts as is quite likely for a forest event, and also the urban events are primarily marketed as separate competitions, say 'Winchester Urban', rather than UKUL 7 etc.
The problem I believe are these regional leagues such as South East League and Yorkshire Superleague (and others, these are just the two leagues I go to). The age based courses seem to be much more prominent and the inadvertent messaging is 'this is what you run if you want to do the sport and be a proper/successful orienteer'. Regional events are of course the next step from local events and a comment I've seen on here a few times is 'how do we get more people who go to locals to go to regionals'. Of course again there are multiple factors - but this is an easy one to fix.
Actually the South East League is primarily a club based competition, so I can see ranking points working quite well for that league. At the moment there is a complicated formula based on target times for results on courses designated by age class (with a rarely known rule that lesser points are available for running down). The biggest factor is turnout. I can see that an individual competition where people run different courses and compare ranking points might not seem fair. Personally I find my points to be pretty similar whatever course I run though.
The urban league - the pressure to run a longer distance is not so damaging at urban since the less experienced orienteer is not that likely to have multiple 20 minute control attempts as is quite likely for a forest event, and also the urban events are primarily marketed as separate competitions, say 'Winchester Urban', rather than UKUL 7 etc.
The problem I believe are these regional leagues such as South East League and Yorkshire Superleague (and others, these are just the two leagues I go to). The age based courses seem to be much more prominent and the inadvertent messaging is 'this is what you run if you want to do the sport and be a proper/successful orienteer'. Regional events are of course the next step from local events and a comment I've seen on here a few times is 'how do we get more people who go to locals to go to regionals'. Of course again there are multiple factors - but this is an easy one to fix.
Actually the South East League is primarily a club based competition, so I can see ranking points working quite well for that league. At the moment there is a complicated formula based on target times for results on courses designated by age class (with a rarely known rule that lesser points are available for running down). The biggest factor is turnout. I can see that an individual competition where people run different courses and compare ranking points might not seem fair. Personally I find my points to be pretty similar whatever course I run though.
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
King Penguin wrote:The 2 national leagues - UKOL & UKUL (and the regional urban leagues)- both expect you to run your designated age-class course.
You can always run up (longer) and you will still score points, but as if in the age-class in which you run.
For UKOL, this is not correct - if you run up you are just completely disregarded for scoring purposes. I'm not sure it's a great rule, but I think it's there to avoid the complexity of working out which class somebody is running up into (e.g. is the M50 running Brown running up as a M35 or an M40)?
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Scott - god
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
SeanC wrote:The urban league - the pressure to run a longer distance is not so damaging at urban since the less experienced orienteer is not that likely to have multiple 20 minute control attempts as is quite likely for a forest event
Although I agree with the rest of what you say, I would query this bit. For the recreational M21 runner used to 5km parkruns, the suggestion that you should attempt a 12km urban race is no small ask, even if you disregard the navigational element.
I know many urban races now do now allow people to enter courses other than the 'designated' course for their age class, although the consequence is that you then appear in a results list headed something like 'Open Course 5' with about three other people.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
Scott wrote:For UKOL, this is not correct - if you run up you are just completely disregarded for scoring purposes. I'm not sure it's a great rule, but I think it's there to avoid the complexity of working out which class somebody is running up into (e.g. is the M50 running Brown running up as a M35 or an M40)?
I can confirm that this is the case. I got no UKOL points running Elite last year. This was a little disappointing but more than made up for by the bonus ranking points
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Homer - diehard
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Re: Urban Course Lengths
Scott wrote:.. ,although the consequence is that you then appear in a results list headed something like 'Open Course 5' with about three other people.
And if you are unlucky you may be the only one!
It is really disappointing when events present results like this. The solution is surely to present results primarily by course. If necessary with a supplementary column showing position within class (whether age, urban League or whatever).
Not sure if the problem is with the available systems / software themselves, or if organisers don't make the best use of those systems.
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