https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... ZqqnFsXxjU
err... there's 100 pages + rules for the plethora of competitions and leagues ... we seem to have nearly as many rules as we have ranked orienteers.
The sport is drowning in rules!
Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
65 posts
• Page 1 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
The good news though is that there are many people on here with strong views about how the sport should be run in the UK, that will presumably be volunteering to help.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
NeilC wrote:The good news though is that there are many people on here with strong views about how the sport should be run in the UK, that will presumably be volunteering to help.
I feared as much ...
- blindasabat
- white
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm
- Location: dunno!
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
Which one did you want to get rid of? Or does Betteridge's Law apply.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
graeme wrote:Which one did you want to get rid of? Or does Betteridge's Law apply.
The great thing about Graeme's posts is that they usually inspire me to investigate further and often I learn something new!
I think the post 'Does Betteridges Law apply?" might answer itself!
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1197
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
graeme wrote:Which one did you want to get rid of? Or does Betteridge's Law apply.
British Orienteering's headline, not mine.
IMHO there's plenty of duplication to be axed and also stuff that's really guidelines rather than rules. After that we have an opportunity to simplify the sport and make it more accessible.
It seems to me that one reason that we find it hard to bring on new organisers and other officials is that, with this many rules to digest and comply with, the task looks somewhat onerous and highly likely to fall foul of one rule or another, which some stickler for them is bound to point out. We've all seen it, and i've seem new organisers and planners leave the sport because of it.
- blindasabat
- white
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm
- Location: dunno!
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
There are some anomolies for sure - plenty of rules that tell me how the British Championships should be organised, but no clarity on whether or not I have to visit all the controls. Or go round on a bicycle. Or assemble a team to do the M21E course as a five man relay.
We know this - Joe Punter who has just arrived from Mars doesn't.
We know this - Joe Punter who has just arrived from Mars doesn't.
Do not poke the badger, particularly with a spoon.
-
Auld Badger - white
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:01 pm
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
I quietly bet myself a coconut that the replies would ask for more rules rather than suggesting deletions. Yum!
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
Auld Badger wrote: but no clarity on whether or not I have to visit all the controls.
Depends on the format but it is specified in the rules - eg:
Rules wrote:2.1 Format types:
• Long (Classic) orienteering usually takes place in forest terrain. The emphasis is on route choice to test a competitor’s ability to use a variety of navigational techniques. All controls on the course are to be visited in a set order.
...
• Score orienteering may take place in any type of terrain. The challenge for a competitor is to gain the greatest score in a pre-defined running time. The controls may be visited in any order and need not all be visited.
Auld Badger wrote: Or go round on a bicycle.
Depends on the format but it is specified in the rules - eg:
Rules wrote:1.1 There are four official orienteering disciplines currently recognised by the International Orienteering
Federation (IOF):
• Foot Orienteering (Foot O) requires the competitor to travel on foot through the terrain.
...
• Mountain Bike Orienteering (MTBO) requires the course to be completed by the competitor riding, pushing or carrying their mountain bike.
...
Auld Badger wrote:
Or assemble a team to do the M21E course as a five man relay.
I don't think we have any 5 leg relays - but if we did the the eligibility criteria would be listed in the competition rules eg for British Relay Champs
Rule D wrote:2.1 Eligibility
...
- pete.owens
- diehard
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
Graeme might have a law for this.
I've never read the rules before so skimmed read them. There are a few which are sometimes or widely ignored so should be removed from the rules unless there's going to be a campaign to change behaviour?
I may have taken these out of context, but should start an interesting discussion anyway
I've never read the rules before so skimmed read them. There are a few which are sometimes or widely ignored so should be removed from the rules unless there's going to be a campaign to change behaviour?
I may have taken these out of context, but should start an interesting discussion anyway
9.9 Competitors must not reach through or lean over an impassable feature to punch a control site. This applies to events using a map drawn to the ISSOM specification.
9.15 If you are the ‘shadower’ then you must have completed your own race before undertaking any shadowing.
13.11 The Organiser must state whether dogs are permitted or not and give details of the areas they are allowed into and under what conditions.
14.6 The risk assessment form must be kept for 5 years after an event or activity has taken place.
"The Mapper is responsible for ensuring that all essential information is shown on the map, this includes all of the following:
.....
• legend – see Appendix D: Mapping for Level A exceptions."
27.7 Competitors who are late for their start time through their own fault shall be timed as if they had started at their original start time. Competitors who are late for their start time through the fault of the organiser shall be timed from their new start time.
4.7.1 There should always be someone at the finish, to supervise competitors and act as the point of contact in an emergency. The finish is the most likely place for somebody to go to report a problem such as an injured competitor.
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
SeanC wrote: There are a few which are sometimes or widely ignored so should be removed from the rules unless there's going to be a campaign to change behaviour?27.7 Competitors who are late for their start time through their own fault shall be timed as if they had started at their original start time. Competitors who are late for their start time through the fault of the organiser shall be timed from their new start time.
Sean can you give us an example (or examples) of where this has been ignored.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
pete.owens wrote:I don't think we have any 5 leg relays
B class at the Harvester.....
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1453
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
Neil - I am guilty of turning up at events recently after my start time through just being late (I mostly blame the dog ), just saying sorry nicely (with no interrogation of reason) and then being given a new start time. In fact I wasn't even aware of this rule. Is it just for certain event levels?
It does put the poor start official in the position of being judge about whether it was the organisers fault or the competitors (eg should the organiser have told competitors about the planned road closure?). Maybe some start officials don't know this rule, or don't want a confrontation?
Anyway I better make sure I make the start on time tomorrow.
It does put the poor start official in the position of being judge about whether it was the organisers fault or the competitors (eg should the organiser have told competitors about the planned road closure?). Maybe some start officials don't know this rule, or don't want a confrontation?
Anyway I better make sure I make the start on time tomorrow.
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
That rule only applies to Level A events - essentially national championships. I presume that you are not talking about such events.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Re: Are British Orienteering Rules too complex?
King Penguin wrote:pete.owens wrote:I don't think we have any 5 leg relays
B class at the Harvester.....
In which case the rules of that competition explain that a team of 5 M21s would not be eligible for any of the trophies awarded for the B course.
- pete.owens
- diehard
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am
65 posts
• Page 1 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 217 guests