JK PreO
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JK PreO
I did the JK PreO course on Day 2 - possibly the first course of this type that I've attempted, although I've tried the timed version (which I think is now called TempO) a few times in the past. Looking at the results and solutions, I'm somewhat confused. The two attachments show part of the Standard and Elite course solutions, and I've annotated the flags A-E as I believe they should be (left to right as viewed). Plainly, Standard controls 1 and 2 are the same respectively as Elite controls 2 and 3, yet the solutions for the latter differ (A on standard vs E on elite). To add to the confusion, the elite course results show control 2 as "CZ" which effectively voids it, whereas on the standard course results it's C as expected. There's also something strange about control 10 on the standard course (16 on the elite course), which again appears to have been voided; presumably there was an issue with it that wasn't apparent when I completed the course (since it wasn't mentioned), but there's nothing I can see on the website about it. Could someone who understands PreO better than me explain this, please?
- Attachments
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- Elite Course
- PreO2.jpg (200.83 KiB) Viewed 4132 times
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- Standard Course
- PreO.jpg (214.47 KiB) Viewed 4132 times
- roadrunner
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Re: JK PreO
The problem is probably not confined to our 'sport'. This is from an elite competition, I think the answer might be different for League 2.
- blindasabat
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Re: JK PreO
The first looks to be an error (counting R-L) - Have you contact the organiser?
The second is likely to have been a result of a protest from one of the elite competitors who answered Z. I guess the kite will have been on the correct spur (which should be good enough for standard competitors since zero was not an option), but not on exactly the correct part of it. The description doesn't appear to match the centre of the circle which would imply "lower part".
The second is likely to have been a result of a protest from one of the elite competitors who answered Z. I guess the kite will have been on the correct spur (which should be good enough for standard competitors since zero was not an option), but not on exactly the correct part of it. The description doesn't appear to match the centre of the circle which would imply "lower part".
- pete.owens
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Re: JK PreO
No, I haven't contacted the organisers as my answer was wrong in any case But what surprises me is that a couple of the leading competitors thought the answer given for standard course control 2 (A) was correct, and it doesn't seem likely that they'd count the wrong way. For that matter, it's hard to believe the planner doing that on just one course, unless of course there were two different planners.
Equally, on the elite course the vast majority of the leading competitors thought their control 2 was indeed C, even though as you say they had the Z option open.
The situation with the other voided control is more interesting to me, as I got that one correct. I was hoping that there would at least be a report of any protests, if not a full set of officials' comments on the courses. I did notice that there was quite a delay in publishing the results, which made me think that there was some sort of problem.
Equally, on the elite course the vast majority of the leading competitors thought their control 2 was indeed C, even though as you say they had the Z option open.
The situation with the other voided control is more interesting to me, as I got that one correct. I was hoping that there would at least be a report of any protests, if not a full set of officials' comments on the courses. I did notice that there was quite a delay in publishing the results, which made me think that there was some sort of problem.
- roadrunner
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Re: JK PreO
From Facebook
Results and solutions for day 2 JK Preo will appear shortly on Jk Web site. In the meantime they can be viewed at https://tinyurl.com/2p9xw3yp. Controls 2 and 16 on the elite course were subject to challenge and have been voided as insufficiently clear. This has no impact on the top positions.
Control 10 of the Standard was voided owing to a control being temporarily absent in a cluster.
Results and solutions for day 2 JK Preo will appear shortly on Jk Web site. In the meantime they can be viewed at https://tinyurl.com/2p9xw3yp. Controls 2 and 16 on the elite course were subject to challenge and have been voided as insufficiently clear. This has no impact on the top positions.
Control 10 of the Standard was voided owing to a control being temporarily absent in a cluster.
- mikey
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Re: JK PreO
roadrunner wrote:No, I haven't contacted the organisers as my answer was wrong in any case But what surprises me is that a couple of the leading competitors thought the answer given for standard course control 2 (A) was correct, and it doesn't seem likely that they'd count the wrong way. For that matter, it's hard to believe the planner doing that on just one course, unless of course there were two different planners.
It is quite a common mistake to make - though it usually happens when the best view of the kites is from the other side. You can get it wrong just by punching the wrong side of the card. The answers seem fairly random, but I think it unlikely that anyone thought the actual solution was the leftmost kite (no one answered B).
Equally, on the elite course the vast majority of the leading competitors thought their control 2 was indeed C, even though as you say they had the Z option open.
They are working to very tight tolerances on the elite course and the top competitors are expecting to get them all correct. It is very common for them to protest the one they get wrong.
The situation with the other voided control is more interesting to me, as I got that one correct. I was hoping that there would at least be a report of any protests, if not a full set of officials' comments on the courses. I did notice that there was quite a delay in publishing the results, which made me think that there was some sort of problem.
I guess that will again be a case of an elite competitor (possibly the same one) protesting that the kite was too far up down the re-entrant - or possibly above the contour. In this case there was one standard competitor who did answer Z so they will have had to void the control on that course as well.
- pete.owens
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Re: JK PreO
pete.owens wrote:I guess that will again be a case of an elite competitor (possibly the same one) protesting that the kite was too far up down the re-entrant - or possibly above the contour. In this case there was one standard competitor who did answer Z so they will have had to void the control on that course as well.
I was a bit confused at first by standard course competitors answering Z (not just for that control), since we were told in advance that there were no Z controls. But then I noticed that there were no "blanks" in the results, so I thought that Z might include cases where no answer was given. (EA (and the like) I assume means that both E and A were punched, which will always be wrong.)
- roadrunner
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Re: JK PreO
Elite.2 was on the top of a flat spur (in fact I collected the control and noticed it descended going W so the kite was near enough at the high point). The centre of the circle was between the form line and the contour below and described in the CD as "spur" which to me meant on the nose, not "top of" or "upper part". This was handled in different ways by the more experienced competitors, some decided "it looks close enough to our 4m tolerance even though that isn't precisely where I'd place it so I'll say C", others thought "it is not placed at the centre of the circle and looks over 4m away so I'll say Z".
Elite 16 should have been quite high up the re-entrant (confirmed by centre of circle and CD), again it looked quite close to the 4m. Again some compeitors thought it was close enough and others not.
The Standard class didn't (shouldn't) have had the same quandary since they were told that Zs were only possible on the "A" controls, not A-C, A-E, etc.
When I finished, and before speaking to any other competitors or looking at the answers, I asked the Planner to take another look at the kite placements and gave him the reasons above as (even if I had got them both correct) that I thought they were too close to say Z and too far away to choose the kite even with the 4m tolerance. He decided that they were approx 4m away and hence agreed they were unfair so he voided them. As Zs weren't possible on that control for the Standard then presumably he allowed the answers on that one to stand.
I've messaged the Planner about control 2 on the Standard; I think Standard had the same decision point as Elite and hence the correct answer would I'd have thought been E (not A).
Elite 16 should have been quite high up the re-entrant (confirmed by centre of circle and CD), again it looked quite close to the 4m. Again some compeitors thought it was close enough and others not.
The Standard class didn't (shouldn't) have had the same quandary since they were told that Zs were only possible on the "A" controls, not A-C, A-E, etc.
When I finished, and before speaking to any other competitors or looking at the answers, I asked the Planner to take another look at the kite placements and gave him the reasons above as (even if I had got them both correct) that I thought they were too close to say Z and too far away to choose the kite even with the 4m tolerance. He decided that they were approx 4m away and hence agreed they were unfair so he voided them. As Zs weren't possible on that control for the Standard then presumably he allowed the answers on that one to stand.
I've messaged the Planner about control 2 on the Standard; I think Standard had the same decision point as Elite and hence the correct answer would I'd have thought been E (not A).
JK
- JK
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Re: JK PreO
JK wrote:Elite.2 was on the top of a flat spur (in fact I collected the control and noticed it descended going W so the kite was near enough at the high point). The centre of the circle was between the form line and the contour below and described in the CD as "spur" which to me meant on the nose, not "top of" or "upper part". This was handled in different ways by the more experienced competitors, some decided "it looks close enough to our 4m tolerance even though that isn't precisely where I'd place it so I'll say C", others thought "it is not placed at the centre of the circle and looks over 4m away so I'll say Z".
Elite 16 should have been quite high up the re-entrant (confirmed by centre of circle and CD), again it looked quite close to the 4m. Again some compeitors thought it was close enough and others not.
The Standard class didn't (shouldn't) have had the same quandary since they were told that Zs were only possible on the "A" controls, not A-C, A-E, etc.
When I finished, and before speaking to any other competitors or looking at the answers, I asked the Planner to take another look at the kite placements and gave him the reasons above as (even if I had got them both correct) that I thought they were too close to say Z and too far away to choose the kite even with the 4m tolerance. He decided that they were approx 4m away and hence agreed they were unfair so he voided them. As Zs weren't possible on that control for the Standard then presumably he allowed the answers on that one to stand.
I've messaged the Planner about control 2 on the Standard; I think Standard had the same decision point as Elite and hence the correct answer would I'd have thought been E (not A).
Thanks for the explanation; I saw that something similar has appeared on the JK website now.
- roadrunner
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