Route Choice 5 articles
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
36 posts
• Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
A few views from another M45. I am looking at the latest RC#5 now.
There is some good stuff in it but it is quite hard to get to because there seems to be a design war going on. "Stencil" headings and lurid purple spot colour does not go with very conservative serif body text and rigid 3-column layout. Also, there is not a clear enough distinction between the short pithy news items, results, selections, articles and opinion - it mostly looks the same and the blank lines between paragraphs makes the articles look like a series of news items e.g. on p 4 -5, though this is the best-looking spread overall. The print quality is very high, so almost all the design tricks used by "youth" magazines could be employed.
I do agree with others that people from the "audience" (i.e. "junior orienteers") need to write loads of articles. An editor's job is impossible if s/he is having to write most of the copy too. Ideally, you would have so much stuff that you extract and use the best bits to make a really "zingy" read. Nopesport shows that people can write - I think the idea of using a forum to pull some ideas together is great, so long as people then sit down with the word processor and knock it into shape for the magazine.
There is some good stuff in it but it is quite hard to get to because there seems to be a design war going on. "Stencil" headings and lurid purple spot colour does not go with very conservative serif body text and rigid 3-column layout. Also, there is not a clear enough distinction between the short pithy news items, results, selections, articles and opinion - it mostly looks the same and the blank lines between paragraphs makes the articles look like a series of news items e.g. on p 4 -5, though this is the best-looking spread overall. The print quality is very high, so almost all the design tricks used by "youth" magazines could be employed.
I do agree with others that people from the "audience" (i.e. "junior orienteers") need to write loads of articles. An editor's job is impossible if s/he is having to write most of the copy too. Ideally, you would have so much stuff that you extract and use the best bits to make a really "zingy" read. Nopesport shows that people can write - I think the idea of using a forum to pull some ideas together is great, so long as people then sit down with the word processor and knock it into shape for the magazine.
-
chrisecurtis - red
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:34 pm
- Location: near Gatwick
This discussion started as a reaction to a comment in RC#5 that too few articles were coming in. It then broadened into a discussion of how the magazine was changing its style and appearance and what people thought. My view - albeit expressed in slightly technical language - was that the changes were in the right direction but there was more to think about, especially the need to match the appearance of the main text (which is very "trad" at the moment) with the more modern titles and to make different types of writing look different so readers can find their way around. I agreed with the need for many more people from its intended audience to write for the magazine.
All of these were constructive comments, which would make sense if you were looking at the magazine. My comments were offered free - I usually charge quite a lot for publishing consultancy. If trying to offer specialist expertise for free for the benefit of the sport is "typical" then orienteering has a lot going for it. If reacting negatively to something you have no immediate personal knowledge of or interest in is typical, then maybe we should worry.
All of these were constructive comments, which would make sense if you were looking at the magazine. My comments were offered free - I usually charge quite a lot for publishing consultancy. If trying to offer specialist expertise for free for the benefit of the sport is "typical" then orienteering has a lot going for it. If reacting negatively to something you have no immediate personal knowledge of or interest in is typical, then maybe we should worry.
-
chrisecurtis - red
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:34 pm
- Location: near Gatwick
That's me been told then (twice actually) For what it's worth I do agree with Andy that the research should come from the customer i.e. the juniors... but not mainstream juniors but those in the schools etc that O is trying to attract. I'm also well aware of the amount of 'free' expertise put into the sport.... again with a but.... don't do it too often because amongst other things it reduces choice as people take the 'free' expertise which may not always be the best or even suited to the particular area of requirement
- gross2004
route choice 5
Never have a problem getting articles myself - mind you I emply strong arm tactics!
- Mrs H. in Trollhatten
route choice 5
I don´t answer phone messages ´cos I haven´t got an answer machine - what do you mean?
- Mrs H. in Trollhatten
For the record, I know i'm not a junior but i was asked to write an article for route choice 5 some years ago about our juniors putting on a colour coded event - it was an ok article - and it never got used - am hardly likely to bother writing another one am I? I think HP was rather rude to talk about juniors (and presumably seniors) drivelling away on nope - maybe if the mag was as cutting edge as nope it'd get the contributions - perhaps it should go on-line?
-
Mrs H. - nope godmother
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Middle England
Mrs H. wrote:For the record, I know i'm not a junior but i was asked to write an article for route choice 5 some years ago about our juniors putting on a colour coded event - it was an ok article - and it never got used - am hardly likely to bother writing another one am I?
Sorry to hear about that. Was that when the magazine had gone 'independent' (i.e. separate mag)? That was when I got involved, but that wasn't quite as long ago as that. Certainly, I can't recall any contribution from you, and it would I'm sure have got used!!
I think HP was rather rude to talk about juniors (and presumably seniors) drivelling away on nope
Possibly (even if true on occasions!), but no ruder than some people have been about 'BOF'. There was certainly an awful lot of talk here about contributions, but none forthcoming, and that is intensely frustrating.
- maybe if the mag was as cutting edge as nope it'd get the contributions - perhaps it should go on-line?
On-line is of course an attractive option, and it did do that (see the Compass Sport website). I don't know why more recent issues haven't been put on line. However, an on-line only issue wouldn't reach everybody. For instance, Nopesport currently has 300 or so subscribers. The last RC5 I did went to two thousand or so juniors.
Whether on-line or not (and there is no preventing people using the internet to get articles to Hilary), RC5 is meant to be a junior magazine. It needs junior contributions. Other alternatives, of course, are not to have one (use it or lose it), or have one written solely in-house by BOF, which I suspect would be cheaper. I don't think either would be particularly attractive though.
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3224
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
Ha Ha Ha - you know if it had been you who'd turned it down i would have given you a very sound tongue lashing - can't remember who it was. but don't you think it's the BOF connection which is the problem - it's seen as uncool - like writing something for the school magazine - and i'm sure people only write for them because they're told to. I personally would far rather write for money - as that is what i was trained to do - but being too lazy to look for work I write for free for the most part. Juniors will write if they are personally asked to and given some sense of responsibility about it. I don't think a general invitation in the ether will achieve very much. I'm not saying ad Hoc is unduly cool - but the june edition had three full scale articles by juniors who had been personally invited to send in something - which they did most admirably. A fourth was also invited to submit something - trebor - he said he was too busy - but not too busy to be drivelling away on nopesport Oh Oh Oh i'm turning into HP.........still at least i won't come last at the o-ringen again
-
Mrs H. - nope godmother
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Middle England
No, I don't think it's the BOF connection, although Suse and I were always keen to keep the magazine independent of BOF publications. Route Choice 5 is in fact not a BOF magazine: the title is owned by Compass Sport, and only went separate from the main magazine because I got money out of various BOF budgets to pay for it to expand and do so.
I do think the issue could well be what you point out later on: individual targeting for articles. When we did do that, there was rarely a problem (except of meeting deadlines!). Unfortunately, Hilary has even less time available to work on it than I did, and I found it time consuming enough.
Thinking aloud, maybe the magazine needs an editorial team of juniors?
I do think the issue could well be what you point out later on: individual targeting for articles. When we did do that, there was rarely a problem (except of meeting deadlines!). Unfortunately, Hilary has even less time available to work on it than I did, and I found it time consuming enough.
Thinking aloud, maybe the magazine needs an editorial team of juniors?
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3224
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
awk wrote:Thinking aloud, maybe the magazine needs an editorial team of juniors?
yup bring back the junior editor (s), they'd be more approachable to other juniors in getting the articles out of them and would probably have a better idea of who to ask for what
“Success is 99% failure� -- Soichiro Honda
-
brooner - [nope] cartel
- Posts: 3931
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:46 pm
- Location: Sydney
who was RC#5 originally aimed at?
My 8 year old son, (who is still young enough to be excited when he receives anything in the post) tossed it aside after 5 seconds because almost nothing in it seemed relevant to him and it ended up being read by his M/W35butnotformuchlonger parents.
Will it ever be possible to produce a magazine to suit orienteers from age 8-20? Even if all the articles were written and edited by juniors, I would have thought that the target audience is too wide for the results to please everyone. Maybe it would be better to target a narrower age group (at the older end) and mail the magazine more selectively? What do juniors (of all ages) and parents think?
My 8 year old son, (who is still young enough to be excited when he receives anything in the post) tossed it aside after 5 seconds because almost nothing in it seemed relevant to him and it ended up being read by his M/W35butnotformuchlonger parents.
Will it ever be possible to produce a magazine to suit orienteers from age 8-20? Even if all the articles were written and edited by juniors, I would have thought that the target audience is too wide for the results to please everyone. Maybe it would be better to target a narrower age group (at the older end) and mail the magazine more selectively? What do juniors (of all ages) and parents think?
- jab
- orange
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:30 pm
- Location: up the faraway tree
36 posts
• Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 160 guests