Drop out of teenage participants

[housewife]

This was an interesting read: https://newsportfuture.com/the-teenage- ... Lq82rQ38LI

Are we focusing on rules and performance above having fun with friends? Is this why there is such a big drop out rate?

[Big Jon]

I agree - and the longer I spend in coaching the more I agree! Make sure there is plenty of time for children to play, interact with each other in whatever way they choose, and have some orienteering thrown into the mix...
I believe this even at top junior level (eg aspiring to JWOC), make things too serious, fill every minute of the schedule with "work" and the participants will back off and go away.
I don't think it ends to be "organised fun", just have time for the children be with each other, they'll find ways to fill the time.

[tomgood]

I feel this is magnified in minority sports like Orienteering.

I'm sure most teens that play regular football at the weekend don't realistically expect to play at a county/national level - but enjoy the company of other's with similar interests.

If you're one of only a handful of teens in your club and not aspiring to a regional squad etc where do you socialise with like minded teens? How many clubs reach that 'critical mass' of juniors that makes socialising realistic?

[NickTaylor]

I think this article is spot on. I remember in 2012 endlessly hearing the phrase 'Inspiring the next generation of champions' and being infuriated by it. Something more like 'Inspiring the next generation of normal kids who just want to have fun and make friends' would have been a much better slogan. I do think the emphasis of sport in general in this country has long been focussed too much on performance. Maybe we should try something different.

Making orienteering sociable for juniors seems to be key and that just seems to be so difficult when there are so few of them around them in a small area. Can someone say very roughly what proportion of regular junior orienteers are in a regional squad?

It feels like the only way to really be part of a social scene as a junior orienteer is to be in a regional squad. I don't know how the squads operate but I imagine it wouldn't be easy to just increase the size of them. Is that right?

[SeanC]

Regional squads are typically volunteer intensive so wouldn't scale up.

Actually I think there is a good social scene for juniors at many local events, but mostly for junior school age children. After that numbers drop off.

This could be fixed quite easily IMHO if all events:
a) offered and promoted a score course.
b) encouraged competing in groups.

Older juniors would then have an alternative pathway to the 'serious'/more challenging yellow-orange-light green-blue route that generally requires being in a club with good junior coaching (rare) or having an experienced motivated orienteering parent as coach who is prepared to do shadowing (normal).

A well planned score course is a failure free option - everyone should be able to find some, whatever skill level, physical ability and motivation. Encourage juniors to compete with their friends if they want to, then they don't need to turn up to a dozen regional squad days to make some friends as they will be bringing their own with them.

Score courses and encouraging group participation could equally benefit many adult newbies.

[spitalfields]

Regional squads are typically volunteer intensive so wouldn't scale up.

Actually I think there is a good social scene for juniors at many local events, but mostly for junior school age children. After that numbers drop off.

This could be fixed quite easily IMHO if all events:
a) offered and promoted a score course.
b) encouraged competing in groups.

Older juniors would then have an alternative pathway to the 'serious'/more challenging yellow-orange-light green-blue route that generally requires being in a club with good junior coaching (rare) or having an experienced motivated orienteering parent as coach who is prepared to do shadowing (normal).

A well planned score course is a failure free option - everyone should be able to find some, whatever skill level, physical ability and motivation. Encourage juniors to compete with their friends if they want to, then they don't need to turn up to a dozen regional squad days to make some friends as they will be bringing their own with them.

Score courses and encouraging group participation could equally benefit many adult newbies.

Completely agree.

[NickTaylor]

I just enjoyed watching the 'What is a Coach?' talk from the British Orienteering coaching conference. It was really interesting to hear Jon and Mark's thoughts on how to make orienteering fun for athletes of all levels. It seems relevant to this thread so thought I'd share it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nKVi10Ik28

[tomgood]

Only 4 W20 participated in the British Sprint champs

https://www.mdoc.org.uk/results-archive ... vent1.html

[buzz]

This was an interesting read: https://newsportfuture.com/the-teenage-tumble

Are we focusing on rules and performance above having fun with friends? Is this why there is such a big drop out rate?

I do think the emphasis of sport in general in this country has long been focussed too much on performance. Maybe we should try something different.

If by ‘performance’ you mean learning and improving, I don’t think this is incompatible with having fun with friends, indeed I would argue fun is an essential part of any training or coaching activity. SYO juniors dominated the recent British Sprints Relays, but it at this Wednesdays club night it was hard to see who was having the most fun - the youngsters covered in bilberry juice playing ‘contour sardines’, or the older kids racing round in the mass start peg race.

The mistake that most sports, including orienteering, have made is to think that ‘performance’ is all about results and not recognise that even world class athletes need to be having fun to sustain a long term career.

….This could be fixed quite easily IMHO if all events:
a) offered and promoted a score course.
b) encouraged competing in groups.
Score courses and encouraging group participation could equally benefit many adult newbies.

Agreed, in fact I’d suggest that we could ditch traditional courses altogether for some events aimed at novices. A few years ago some of us in SYO proposed a Parkrun inspired event model featuring score courses in local parks with virtual controls and online entry results. BOF had some development money at the time but unfortunately they chose to support an outsourced event series which failed dismally.

…. they don't need to turn up to a dozen regional squad days to make some friends as they will be bringing their own with them

I think club, regional and national squads provide a different and equally important environment which complement events. Juniors meet new friends, identify as part of a team and enjoy independence from their parents – the latter being a key issue for older teens. If we focus too much on the ‘family sport’ image, then we are sure to put off most teenagers and younger adults.

Regional squads are typically volunteer intensive so wouldn't scale up…..

Club, regional and national squads are almost exclusively managed and run by former athletes and parents so are naturally scalable. Each squad tends to have a maximum size but you can always add new clubs or layers above as the numbers grow. Scotland for example has introduced ‘area squads’ to boost the capacity.

Historically the volunteer base generated by regional and national squads is more than sufficient to keep the squads running, but more importantly former squad athletes and parents play a significant role in running the sport as a whole – for example, when I last checked, 75% of SYO event planners and organisers had been involved with regional squads in the past.

[Big Jon]

Historically the volunteer base generated by regional and national squads is more than sufficient to keep the squads running, but more importantly former squad athletes and parents play a significant role in running the sport as a whole – for example, when I last checked, 75% of SYO event planners and organisers had been involved with regional squads in the past.

Thats impressive! I know in Maroc we try to get all juniors who are interested/regular competitors to plan at least one event before they leave the club to Uni. Many do several and learn a lot from it. No point waiting foe them to offer, but approach directly and many will accept - especially if they get a sympathetic mentor.

[SeanC]

I don't mean to say that regional squads aren't part of the answer BTW. They obviously are, and vital for those juniors who for them orienteering is their main sport and they want to become expert and push themselves, in short the dedicated minority. The south east junior squad selection criteria makes this quite clear. Juniors are expected to be going to larger events outside of SEOA, even attending the squad days within SEOA involves monthly 1-2 hour drives. It's really for the keen and nothing wrong with that. (see https://www.seoa.org.uk/info/south-east ... membership)

The problem is that there is a tendency for orienteers to see regional junior squads as the answer to the junior problem, both for providing coaching and socialising. Club squads can suffer from a chicken and egg problem in that there aren't enough juniors to form a viable squad, which results in limited club junior coaching and this avenue for socialising (and coaching) being quite limited, so the response can be 'oh well, there is the regional squad'.

I'm suggesting that we could focus on simply offering 'turn up and get on with it' recreational orienteering which doesn't need a lot of skill and can be a good laugh. This being a score course where teenagers (and any other ages) can compete in groups and just enjoy getting muddy, crashing through the vegetation and getting a bit lost, maybe even navigating a bit. That seems quite achieveable and just needs a mindset change amongst some that orienteering can be a group sport and can just be done a few times a year. Out of this some keen regional squad types could/should appear.

There is the transport problem, but I'm sure most parents with the resources are happy to drive to see their sons/daughters doing a low cost healthy outdoor activity with their friends.

[buzz]

The problem is that there is a tendency for orienteers to see regional junior squads as the answer to the junior problem, both for providing coaching and socialising.

I agree, this is a big problem.

Regional and national squads are about developing the skills and knowledge base within the sport, and fueling a passion for orienteering that drives the volunteer base of the future, and in the process raising standards of performance to enable us to be competitive as a nation at international level. If done badly you get none of that and have a negative impact on participation in the short term.

Club squads and schools teams, however, are both an important part of the 'performance pathway' AND a means to drive participation - offering a social experience that events can't deliver.

Club squads can suffer from a chicken and egg problem in that there aren't enough juniors to form a viable squad, which results in limited club junior coaching and this avenue for socialising (and coaching) being quite limited, so the response can be 'oh well, there is the regional squad'.

Agreed, and the chicken and egg problem is exacerbated by the fact that lots of kids wearing club kit and socialising together at local events is perhaps the best marketing tool a club can have.

There are ways to get over the initial numbers threshold, for example working through schools or contacting families directly. There's nothing like being invited to join a team or a club to motivate a youngster.

I'm suggesting that we could focus on simply offering 'turn up and get on with it' recreational orienteering which doesn't need a lot of skill and can be a good laugh. This being a score course where teenagers (and any other ages) can compete in groups and just enjoy getting muddy, crashing through the vegetation and getting a bit lost, maybe even navigating a bit. That seems quite achieveable and just needs a mindset change amongst some that orienteering can be a group sport....

This sounds great and there are other ideas that could make orienteering events more attractive to youngsters - technology (live results/gps tracking), atmosphere (music, PA), micro orienteering/mazes, etc. As you say we just the need a mindset change as to what orienteering events can be like.

...and can just be done a few times a year.

Absolutely I think sometimes clubs and BOF see membership as a measure of success, but participation is just as important assuming you are trying to develop the sport.

Out of this some keen regional squad types could/should appear.

Agreed, but I don't think you should skip the club squad level.