All true. But in the unlikely event of a member of the public getting seriously injured in an accident with an individual participating on any course, they may still look for someone to sue. The obvious person to go after is the participant, but if there are "controls hung", organised in any way through the club, it could also conceivably be the club, planner or control hanger. I am not sure it is reasonable to ask a club member on take on that risk, nor to expose a club and its elected officers to that risk, if they are not insured.
As described, I think the SYO activity is completely acceptable within current (England) coronavirus guidelines, and it should be a good example of how to restart the sport. What I don't understand is why BO won't permit it to be be registered with them as an activity, and so be insured.
Preparing for a restart.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Snail wrote:What I don't understand is why BO won't permit it to be be registered with them as an activity, and so be insured.
Because to be an insured activity the insurer would expect the person they were covering to be present in person to manage the risks they were insuring. To actively supervise that activity. To make sure participants were appropriately dressed and equipped, to check that the weather conditions were safe, To check that they returned within a reasonable time, to cover first aid and so on.
All those actions listed in a risk assessment for an event or activity need someone to be present to do them.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I don't mean this facetiously, but in 50+ years of orienteering has anyone ever claimed against BOF's public liability insurance?
I really think the chance of this happening for a "solo o" as described is zero - the ones I worry about are City Races. Surely one day someone will collide with a bus or something and then I'm not really sure what happens.
I really think the chance of this happening for a "solo o" as described is zero - the ones I worry about are City Races. Surely one day someone will collide with a bus or something and then I'm not really sure what happens.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
My house has never burned down, been burgled, or flooded. Should I stop paying my insurance because it probably won't happen?
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Arnold wrote:I don't mean this facetiously, but in 50+ years of orienteering has anyone ever claimed against BOF's public liability insurance?
Yes - claims for damage to property (on which there is a £250 excess) are probably more frequent than you might think.
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Scott - god
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
pete.owens wrote:...Because to be an insured activity the insurer would expect the person they were covering to be present in person to manage the risks they were insuring. To actively supervise that activity. To make sure participants were appropriately dressed and equipped, to check that the weather conditions were safe, To check that they returned within a reasonable time, to cover first aid and so on.
All those actions listed in a risk assessment for an event or activity need someone to be present to do them.
All of those things are highly commendable, and best practice for regular events/activities, but they are primarily concerned with the safety of competitors - who themselves are not covered by the BO insurance policy.
BO insurance is against claims from third parties: primarily the wider public and owners of the terrain / infrastructure. For an activity like this, there is no need fo anyone to be present; it should be sufficient that appropriate care has been taken over the map, course planning, and control siting in order to minimise risks. Clubs and their members should surely be able to expect that this sort of thing is insured; they shouldn't have to run with even a minute risk of having to personally meet a £x00,000 claim, simply because someone persuades a judge that a poor control/course/map led to an accident.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Arnold wrote:I don't mean this facetiously, but in 50+ years of orienteering has anyone ever claimed against BOF's public liability insurance?
I really think the chance of this happening for a "solo o" as described is zero - the ones I worry about are City Races. Surely one day someone will collide with a bus or something and then I'm not really sure what happens.
Does the insurance only cover the competition area and the competitor? I have some vague memory of an orienteer making a claim for damage to their car that happened while they were moving their car in a field being used for parking at a large event years ago (hit a hidden boulder in the grass?). Could be wrong and maybe this was only a claim against the club involved for their possible negligence in using a field for parking that could result in damage to a vehicle.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Hermes wrote:My house has never burned down, been burgled, or flooded. Should I stop paying my insurance because it probably won't happen?
But you don't pay for your house insurer to cover you for the eventuality that someone might sue you because they were run over by a delivery driver delivering a parcel to your house - which is what people are worrying about here.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
canol wrote:Does the insurance only cover the competition area and the competitor? I have some vague memory of an orienteer making a claim for damage to their car that happened while they were moving their car in a field being used for parking at a large event years ago (hit a hidden boulder in the grass?). Could be wrong and maybe this was only a claim against the club involved for their possible negligence in using a field for parking that could result in damage to a vehicle.
It covers all aspects of the event. So car parking would be part of that. A competitor is a 3rd party in this case and they are parking their car as instructed by the organiser. This is exactly the sort of thing that event organisers could be considered liable for which is why we need insurance for events. Of course if the competitor had driven at high speed across the parking field and crashed into a large tree then there would be no claim - but if the parking official instructs a driver to park on a boulder then the organiser would be liable.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Scott wrote:Arnold wrote:I don't mean this facetiously, but in 50+ years of orienteering has anyone ever claimed against BOF's public liability insurance?
Yes - claims for damage to property (on which there is a £250 excess) are probably more frequent than you might think.
How many in the past, lets say, 20 years? I suspect very, very few, but go on, inform me and expose my total utter ignorance
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
It's generally not a great plan to start detailing your claims history on the internet, but if you want to drop me an email I'm happy to share the very little I know - which is obviously a pretty limited view, as I wouldn't expect the staff to tell the board about routine claims.
It's worth remembering that property damage claims are quite likely to come from other people's insurance companies, rather than from individual competitors or members of the public. To take canol's example, if I do some serious damage to my car on a rock in the parking field, I'll probably just make a claim on my own car insurance. It's my car insurance company who will try to recover a proportion of their money by making a claim against the organiser.
It's worth remembering that property damage claims are quite likely to come from other people's insurance companies, rather than from individual competitors or members of the public. To take canol's example, if I do some serious damage to my car on a rock in the parking field, I'll probably just make a claim on my own car insurance. It's my car insurance company who will try to recover a proportion of their money by making a claim against the organiser.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
The OOCup in France is going ahead in August after the organisers received permissions from the local authorities. The French government had originally blocked all mass participation events but it seems they have changed their policy - perhaps influenced by pressure from cycling which is huge in France.
Probably still an issue for UK competitors due to the current 14 day quarantine rules but they may be relaxed in time. If you were thinking of going there's a poll on the web site to choose between two dates (the later date would be a more likely possibility).
Probably still an issue for UK competitors due to the current 14 day quarantine rules but they may be relaxed in time. If you were thinking of going there's a poll on the web site to choose between two dates (the later date would be a more likely possibility).
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
OO Cup now to be 11th to 15th August (with model event 8-9 August). Looking forward to it.
Will we get back without having to self isolate though
Will we get back without having to self isolate though
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I notice that York Rowing Club (near my house) is back in action this week... not competing but training with the club house open (and it opens onto a public ex-towpath by the river) and members helping each other carrying boats and oars around both inside the boathouse and outside.
Have I missed something? Has there been some announcement about formal sporting activities being allowed now? Does it just apply to rowing? What's the name of their insurance company?
Have I missed something? Has there been some announcement about formal sporting activities being allowed now? Does it just apply to rowing? What's the name of their insurance company?
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