Preparing for a restart.
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: Preparing for a restart.
At least one of our local councils still requires a guarantee of 2 m social distancing for outdoors events - orienteers and general public - or further relaxation of government guidance on social distancing or official government approval for the specific sport before they will grant permissions.
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1453
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: Preparing for a restart.
Not sure how you can guarantee 2m social distancing when you have competitors mixing with the general public.
This is unfortunately where comparing us to other sports fails. Golf, tennis, cricket, etc. all take place in areas specifically reserved for that sport. Orienteering does not (unless you have access to a private estate).
This is unfortunately where comparing us to other sports fails. Golf, tennis, cricket, etc. all take place in areas specifically reserved for that sport. Orienteering does not (unless you have access to a private estate).
- SJC
- diehard
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:45 am
Re: Preparing for a restart.
2mtrs - Start lane brief, final instructions, a check of understanding when going into the box
All these can be done by the organiser to mitigate the distance. Who says other people won't break that for the orienteer. They could be aiming for 2+ m and someone outside of the sport breaks the bubble.
Some people want to wait until it's fully fully gone, I'm happy to run with a safe seperation set by myself and get a Normal life back. The more the remote landscape, the less risk of meeting others.
London City Race = No
LOC Long Weekend = Yes
MrD
All these can be done by the organiser to mitigate the distance. Who says other people won't break that for the orienteer. They could be aiming for 2+ m and someone outside of the sport breaks the bubble.
Some people want to wait until it's fully fully gone, I'm happy to run with a safe seperation set by myself and get a Normal life back. The more the remote landscape, the less risk of meeting others.
London City Race = No
LOC Long Weekend = Yes
MrD
- MrD
- white
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:29 pm
Re: Preparing for a restart.
I agree much easier to achieve in remote countryside than in urban areas.
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1453
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: Preparing for a restart.
SJC wrote:Not sure how you can guarantee 2m social distancing when you have competitors mixing with the general public.
This is unfortunately where comparing us to other sports fails. Golf, tennis, cricket, etc. all take place in areas specifically reserved for that sport. Orienteering does not (unless you have access to a private estate).
Remember that the mobile apps that were going to inform people of positive cases they had contact with would only have contacted someone who was "within 2m of someone for 15 minutes". This suggests to me that the chance of catching the virus from running past someone infected is vanishingly unlikely. The risk of catching the virus is far higher in any cafe/service area you enter while travelling to the event. Or indeed visiting any shop during the rest of your life.
- Big Jon
- guru
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:59 am
- Location: Dess
Re: Preparing for a restart.
This suggests to me that the chance of catching the virus from running past someone infected is vanishingly unlikely.
I agree. But persuading local authorities of this may be another matter.
- SJC
- diehard
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:45 am
Re: Preparing for a restart.
IMHO while Covid is still circulating without a vaccine then only small scale local events will be viable/allowed.
Large events will be frowned upon due to the number of individuals mixing in carparks, assembly, loo queues, download etc. But just as importantly they will encourage competitors to travel from one area to another with the potential to spread the virus accordingly, not to mention the increased contact on the way in shops, petrol stations etc.
At small scale local events it should be easy to achieve the necessary separation to remain 'safe' whether that be in parks, forests or urban settings, by sensible organisation and by choosing an area which is unlikely to be teeming with other users. It may also be necessary to limit entries to only neighbouring clubs?
I suspect that risk assessments will have to change to reflect the Covid risks (not just from the virus but also possible impact on NHS/Mountainrescue etc). If we do these RAs now it should become pretty clear what events will be viable and clubs can concentrate their resources on what is achieveable rather than attempting to return to 'business as usual'.
Perhaps I should change my profile name to Eeyore
Large events will be frowned upon due to the number of individuals mixing in carparks, assembly, loo queues, download etc. But just as importantly they will encourage competitors to travel from one area to another with the potential to spread the virus accordingly, not to mention the increased contact on the way in shops, petrol stations etc.
At small scale local events it should be easy to achieve the necessary separation to remain 'safe' whether that be in parks, forests or urban settings, by sensible organisation and by choosing an area which is unlikely to be teeming with other users. It may also be necessary to limit entries to only neighbouring clubs?
I suspect that risk assessments will have to change to reflect the Covid risks (not just from the virus but also possible impact on NHS/Mountainrescue etc). If we do these RAs now it should become pretty clear what events will be viable and clubs can concentrate their resources on what is achieveable rather than attempting to return to 'business as usual'.
Perhaps I should change my profile name to Eeyore
- blindasabat
- white
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm
- Location: dunno!
Re: Preparing for a restart.
blindasabat wrote:IMHO while Covid is still circulating without a vaccine then only small scale local events will be viable/allowed.
And if a vaccine is never found?
OO Cup has 1,500 entries and counting.....
-
Homer - diehard
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Springfield
Re: Preparing for a restart.
Homer wrote:And if a vaccine is never found? ...
Without a vaccine? Just my opinion of course...
Normality can largely be resumed through the New Zealand option of eradicating the virus. That just isn't going to happen in the UK, or most other places.
Otherwise, life will change, there will be no return to business as usual. 'We' didn't wake up the the threats imposed by MERS and SARS so we have a pandemic in the form of Covid which will rumble on for years without a vaccine.
However, the world is now starting to take seriously the reality that even with a vaccine the next pandemic may be only just around the corner. To drive the point home that there are constant threats, there is a bubonic plague outbreak in central asia just now. In order to live with the new normal of an existing pandemic and threats of others, there will be no return to the way things were pre-covid. There will be changes, maybe just subtle ones, to our freedoms to come and go as we please. Sure, organise events, enter events, but accept that there is a significant likelihood that they will not happen, and the risks of an event being pulled rise with the size of event.
- blindasabat
- white
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm
- Location: dunno!
Re: Preparing for a restart.
At present there are no travel restrictions for most people in the UK and I don't see why orienteering should be more restrictive. Limiting numbers and perhaps giving priority to local participants when entering events makes sense, but a complete ban on non-locals does not.
- MChub
- off string
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:43 pm
Re: Preparing for a restart.
blindasabat wrote:Homer wrote:And if a vaccine is never found? ...
Without a vaccine? Just my opinion of course...
Normality can largely be resumed through the New Zealand option of eradicating the virus. That just isn't going to happen in the UK, or most other places.
Scotland is close to eradicating the virus (Professor Sridhar from Edinburgh) as is Northern Ireland but, so far, England isn't close. Maybe larger events could be allowed but with travel restrictions on entrants?
- Big Jon
- guru
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:59 am
- Location: Dess
Re: Preparing for a restart.
blindasabat wrote:Without a vaccine? Just my opinion of course...
Normality can largely be resumed through the New Zealand option of eradicating the virus. That just isn't going to happen in the UK, or most other places.
Otherwise, life will change, there will be no return to business as usual. 'We' didn't wake up the the threats imposed by MERS and SARS so we have a pandemic in the form of Covid which will rumble on for years without a vaccine.
However, the world is now starting to take seriously the reality that even with a vaccine the next pandemic may be only just around the corner. To drive the point home that there are constant threats, there is a bubonic plague outbreak in central asia just now. In order to live with the new normal of an existing pandemic and threats of others, there will be no return to the way things were pre-covid. There will be changes, maybe just subtle ones, to our freedoms to come and go as we please. Sure, organise events, enter events, but accept that there is a significant likelihood that they will not happen, and the risks of an event being pulled rise with the size of event.
That may be your view. There are all sorts of reasons for not holding major orienteering events regardless of pandemics, tens of thousands of people are killed or seriously injured in road traffic accidents in the UK each year and cars are contributing to the global warming crisis, so perhaps we shouldn't be encouraging people to drive long distances to events at all?
Its not up to British Orienteering to make those sort of judgement calls, we should work within government set guidelines and policies and influence them where we can in the interests of the sport.
And can we ban the phrase 'new normal' from Nopesport please?!
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1197
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: Preparing for a restart.
The ethos of our sport has always been that competitors have to take responsibility for themselves. Of course there has to be a risk assessment and necessary mitigations but essentially it's up to me to take care of myself and others. If there are crags, I may be warned at the start and courses may avoid them but if I stray from the line and come across one, it's really down to me whether I scramble up or go round. Long may it be so.
Of course with covid it's a bit trickier as our presence may be a risk to others.
Nevertheless I don't think that going to an event in itself is a risk. It would be if indoors or in urban areas with lots of other people and narrow alleys. But in the great outdoors, no. I don't want to catch it and I don't want to give it unwittingly to others so I will make sure I don't go within two metres of anyone even for a second. It's simple to organise an event so that no one needs to go close to another person. It's easy to make sure everyone can clean the toilet sufaces before they touch them and clean their hands afterwards.
Events will need more thought and probably longer start times but it's these and the specific areas being used that matter not the number of competitors... 20 people in the local park is more risky the 500 on Kinder!
As always the temptation is to make rules that sound good but don't do what they are intended to do. It's easy to say for example "no gathering of over 50 people" even if this does nothing to reduce the real risks. They key measures needed are to keep people apart, to stop them touching stuff unnecessarily and clean surfaces that they do touch.
Of course with covid it's a bit trickier as our presence may be a risk to others.
Nevertheless I don't think that going to an event in itself is a risk. It would be if indoors or in urban areas with lots of other people and narrow alleys. But in the great outdoors, no. I don't want to catch it and I don't want to give it unwittingly to others so I will make sure I don't go within two metres of anyone even for a second. It's simple to organise an event so that no one needs to go close to another person. It's easy to make sure everyone can clean the toilet sufaces before they touch them and clean their hands afterwards.
Events will need more thought and probably longer start times but it's these and the specific areas being used that matter not the number of competitors... 20 people in the local park is more risky the 500 on Kinder!
As always the temptation is to make rules that sound good but don't do what they are intended to do. It's easy to say for example "no gathering of over 50 people" even if this does nothing to reduce the real risks. They key measures needed are to keep people apart, to stop them touching stuff unnecessarily and clean surfaces that they do touch.
- yted
- light green
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 1:53 pm
Re: Preparing for a restart.
In anticipation of BOF’s guidelines being issued on Monday, here is a draft version of the US ones: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/11EMa9sYuwHEKdOZf3HNL0QtgEF5U0XqMu5i5NqSLFxA
It’s a little heavy on the mandatory requirements for my liking, but sensible enough as a starting point?
It’s a little heavy on the mandatory requirements for my liking, but sensible enough as a starting point?
- Arnold
- diehard
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:24 am
Re: Preparing for a restart.
Arnold wrote:here is a draft version of the US one
have these been approved by Trumpie?
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
-
Gross - god
- Posts: 2693
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:13 am
- Location: Heading back to Scotland
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 202 guests