Frequent and local, informal events is where we need to start. 'Novices' need to learn so many skills before they can compete effectively. They need regular opportunities to 'O', preferably very close to home so that they can develop the 'passion' for running with a map.
We need ten times as many informal events spread throughout the year and a promotion & advertising regime to go with them. We can attract M/W21s, easily, but they are the ones who will give up if they are not supported with 'coaching input'.
We currently waste too much of our time being involved in the big national events, with all our intellectual expertise & energy going on them. I have tried for years to get NWOA to divert effort away from their 'big event', but as yet without success. Soon there won't be any point as the membership is slowly decreasing and the M/W65+ group haven't got the energy to do the work anymore. We will be lucky to have a sport in ten years, and by then.....
Entry on the Day
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Re: Entry on the Day
RJ wrote:Frequent and local, informal events is where we need to start. 'Novices' need to learn so many skills before they can compete effectively. They need regular opportunities to 'O', preferably very close to home so that they can develop the 'passion' for running with a map.
We need ten times as many informal events spread throughout the year and a promotion & advertising regime to go with them. We can attract M/W21s, easily, but they are the ones who will give up if they are not supported with 'coaching input'.
We currently waste too much of our time being involved in the big national events, with all our intellectual expertise & energy going on them. I have tried for years to get NWOA to divert effort away from their 'big event', but as yet without success. Soon there won't be any point as the membership is slowly decreasing and the M/W65+ group haven't got the energy to do the work anymore. We will be lucky to have a sport in ten years, and by then.....
I fully support this comment. My club, BKO, has held monthly Saturday events which were originally targeted at juniors and (relative) newcomers but they have become dominated by those doing the longest course (Short Blue). These are mostly experienced orienteers seeking yet another chance to enjoy the sport they love.
Some have I think commented that there are too many Level A events but in my opinion there are too many Level B events (certainly in the south) taking up an excessive amount of our volunteers' time particularly from the most committed. The Level As provide the intense high quality competition with all the additional atmosphere of championship competition - these are great for the real enthusiasts and showcase the sport at its best for relative newcomers. There need to be some Level Bs as way to progress to the Level As but let's shift the focus and have more Level Ds with a smaller number of the less technical courses (no Short Blue!) with the aim of attracting additional members. One positive thing about this is that they can be put on with a much reduced demand on our aging volunteers and, by using less technical and smaller areas, prevent the overuse of our better areas.
- DavidJ
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Re: Entry on the Day
Although I am in the camp of more local events compared to 'big' events, I don't think this is really the answer on its own to expanding the sport. I think most (not all) clubs have enough local events, they're just not always publicized well enough (or even at all) outside of the sport.
Where clubs have publicized events with straightforward, easy and cheap techniques such as using Facebook or mailing using mailing lists, results have sometimes been dramatic (see TVOC local events which frequently get 100 + non club members attending and TVOC have seen 10% increases in their membership yearly).
The question is, is there a link between clubs and associations time spent on big events aimed at experienced orienteers, and the lack of publicity effort in some clubs?
I'm not sure if it's this straightforward, but this is worth discussing at your next committee meeting. Is your publicity effort bringing in enough newcomers? Is the workload of level A and B events getting in the way? What can you do to improve publicity?
My experience is that you don't have to be a Mike Shires type marketing guru to get lots more newcomers to your events as the techniques are straightforward, but it does need one or a few people in a club to step back from organising events and other club roles to focus much of their volunteer time on publicity. Club committees roles could be to find such people as a priority and encourage them by not expecting them to do other volunteering tasks. That will probably mean less capacity for events at all levels.
If there are any new publicity officers out there who need advice and support, there is a great Facebook page to ask questions of the other club publicity officers:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/orienteeringpublicity/
Where clubs have publicized events with straightforward, easy and cheap techniques such as using Facebook or mailing using mailing lists, results have sometimes been dramatic (see TVOC local events which frequently get 100 + non club members attending and TVOC have seen 10% increases in their membership yearly).
The question is, is there a link between clubs and associations time spent on big events aimed at experienced orienteers, and the lack of publicity effort in some clubs?
I'm not sure if it's this straightforward, but this is worth discussing at your next committee meeting. Is your publicity effort bringing in enough newcomers? Is the workload of level A and B events getting in the way? What can you do to improve publicity?
My experience is that you don't have to be a Mike Shires type marketing guru to get lots more newcomers to your events as the techniques are straightforward, but it does need one or a few people in a club to step back from organising events and other club roles to focus much of their volunteer time on publicity. Club committees roles could be to find such people as a priority and encourage them by not expecting them to do other volunteering tasks. That will probably mean less capacity for events at all levels.
If there are any new publicity officers out there who need advice and support, there is a great Facebook page to ask questions of the other club publicity officers:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/orienteeringpublicity/
- SeanC
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Re: Entry on the Day
I'm in two minds about which approach is best for attracting people.
Having lots of local events could be likened to parkrun, and no-one can doubt that that's got a lot of people out running who might not otherwise have done so. On the other hand, two of the most popular running events in the UK (in the sense that they're heavily oversubscribed in spite of the cost) are the London Marathon and the Great North Run, and I would say that they're more like our Level A events.
The most important thing, surely, is that newcomers enjoy their first event (and being DQ'd is probably the worst thing in that respect). So maybe letting them see the map (and having it explained to them), run in pairs, time penalties rather than disqualification, etc are worth comsidering.
Having lots of local events could be likened to parkrun, and no-one can doubt that that's got a lot of people out running who might not otherwise have done so. On the other hand, two of the most popular running events in the UK (in the sense that they're heavily oversubscribed in spite of the cost) are the London Marathon and the Great North Run, and I would say that they're more like our Level A events.
The most important thing, surely, is that newcomers enjoy their first event (and being DQ'd is probably the worst thing in that respect). So maybe letting them see the map (and having it explained to them), run in pairs, time penalties rather than disqualification, etc are worth comsidering.
- roadrunner
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Re: Entry on the Day
Keep in mind retaining people is as important as attracting newcomers. Retention of more experienced people depends on having enough events with more technical courses on interesting maps. From the perspective of someone who is relatively experienced, but not very competitive, there is very little difference between level A, B and C events (except the entry fees and the ability to enter on the day): the map quality is almost the same (the differences only really matter at the highest level), I don't really care who I am competing with (as long as there are at least 10 people on my course so I get ranking points to see my progress), and the terrain and course quality can actually be lower at level A because of parking constraints etc.
- MChub
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Re: Entry on the Day
Snail wrote:peteT wrote:I would actually like to see EOD at all events, including championship races - or at least entries until 1 or 2 days before. There are always a people that for a variety of valid reasons are suddenly able to enter a race (including forgetting) and will pay extra to do this. If the systems are able to cope with it then we ought to be flexible.peteT wrote:...Recent club events have a closing date of the Sunday before the event atthe reduced cost ... Entries are then kept open until Friday night for people to enter at EOD rates as long as we have maps left. ...
Anyone with a valid reason to only EOD can be really penalised by the second policy. Even if they arrive before registration opens, they can still find that all the "extra" maps were sold in advance. For that reason if I can only EOD I will rarely go an event operating that policy, unless the club makes in very clear on their website that there are still plenty of maps still available.
The over-emphasis on pre-entry may even be contributing to the decline in the sport. Over a long period we have gone from a position where all level C (or earlier equivalent) and some level B events were EOD only, and you could even EOD on some A courses, to a position where even level C are largely pre-entry. It isn't an issue for committed orienteers who participate every weekend (and so nearly always pre-enter), but it can be really offputting for the large number who orienteer only around once a month, and who only decide at the last minute, say depending on the weather or family. It is precisely these people who we ought to be encouraging, by making it easy and attractive to EOD.
Fair point on the map numbers. We can easily add that information after the entries do close and I can see this would help people make a decision. What we are trying to do is reduce the volunteer effort on the day, give us a better idea of course numbers and make things hopefully easier and more flexible for everyone. With this in mind I'm not sure that having both an ability to pre-enter and EOD is putting people off?
- peteT
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Re: Entry on the Day
Perhaps for a different thread, but how do we persuade local event people to dip their toe into bigger events? There seems to be two different orienteering worlds here in Edinburgh, the local event people (of which there are lots) and the I’d-rather-run-somewhere-more-adventurous-thanks people, who make up the club regulars.
- housewife
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Re: Entry on the Day
andypat wrote:How would you deal with the lack of start slots though? I remember once entering on the day an event on Speyside and having to wait about 2 hours for a slot on light green. Enjoyed the course but would I do that again? Not really.
Is it fair to fit people in at reduced start intervals who then might gain an advantage?
For some popular events I think you have to accept that if you cant pre-enter you may not get a run.
So would an extra advantage of pre-entering be that you also get a start slot - maybe you pick a 20 minute window and then EOD people are slotted in?
As for 'Is it fair' for a 30 second slot - I guess people will have a different opinion but mine is: At a championship race definitely not, anything else if the runners around that time are OK with it then adding an additional runner every now and then to manage a queue is fine - especially if you mix the abilities so people are more likely not to end up running together.
- peteT
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Re: Entry on the Day
andypat wrote:How would you deal with the lack of start slots though? I remember once entering on the day an event on Speyside and having to wait about 2 hours for a slot on light green. Enjoyed the course but would I do that again? Not really.
Surely this situation only arises when you have rather a lot of people attending your event. A two and a half hour start window would give 150 people doing the Light Green. That is a very large event! Restricting the Light Green starters to a two minute interval is not needed.
The solution to the problem is not about 'slotting people in'. The initial planning for the event must have realised that they were going to attract 600+ people, so sufficient courses and start window would have been part of the organising. If the example relates to the Scottish 6Day event then the 'problem' may be better directed at the 6Day rather than 'Orienteering Events' in general.
I don't think we have a problem with events in general. Our (NWOA) Level C events are EOD with about 200 attending and we have a policy of forming a queue at the start with each course in a separate lane. The queues are minimal and are generally for Green and Blue. A five minute wait would be 'normal' for the period 10.45 to 11.15 only.
If you have larger numbers you generally provide more courses. A Level B event often attracts higher numbers and that is why pre-entry is a good idea. Having a larger print run, and ending up with unused maps, should not be considered 'a problem'. Having 10% unused maps might add 1% to the entry fee. We don't have to work to a shoe string!
- RJ
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Re: Entry on the Day
Snail wrote:Orienteering is a serious competitive sport for perhaps only 10% of the membership; a sport for perhaps another 40%; and more of a fun recreation for the remaining 50%. In our efforts to make it totally fair for the 10%, we sometimes lose sight of the other 90% who primarily just want a good day out.
Orienteering is a sport - full stop. I know very few orienteers who aren't competitive (although some claim not to be!), and young kids in particular are almost all excited to see how they did compared with their friends at the end of the race.
Snail wrote:The popular events, that have a good atmosphere, plenty of people, traders, caterers etc are precisely those where we ought to be more welcoming to newcomers and to occasional orienteers - because they are the events that just might convert them into regular participants.
Absolutely agree, but don't stop at championships, try to add a bit of atmosphere and facilities to local events to grab the attention of newcomers.
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Re: Entry on the Day
RJ wrote:andypat wrote:How would you deal with the lack of start slots though? I remember once entering on the day an event on Speyside and having to wait about 2 hours for a slot on light green. Enjoyed the course but would I do that again? Not really.
Surely this situation only arises when you have rather a lot of people attending your event. A two and a half hour start window would give 150 people doing the Light Green. That is a very large event! Restricting the Light Green starters to a two minute interval is not needed.
NO I think as Graeme suggested elsewhere it was 2min start slots and not being prepared to budge. It was a SOL and had no space left on any TD5 courses or no EOD I cant recall and we'd to wait until the end of the start window to get a 2min start slot on LG. So maybe 100 or so people on it. Still a big race - I'll see if I can find the results online to check!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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