Looking forward to this as usual.
I wonder whether we have got what we want with regard to seeding of start times?
It looks to me like the last starter in each class is the highest ranked competitor with previous starters going off in reverse ranking order at 2 minute intervals.
I'm in agreement with the principal of a seeded block for the top competitors at the end of the start period. I'd much prefer a bigger interval than 2 minutes. I also note that the rules state that start times within the seeded block should be allocated at random.
I predict lots of trains.
British Middles seeding
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Re: British Middles seeding
A few oddities in M55 (eg the top ranked competitor going off as 9th starter of 57).
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Re: British Middles seeding
NeilC wrote:A few oddities in M55 (eg the top ranked competitor going off as 9th starter of 57).
IIRC you were able to opt out of the seeding by selecting an early start time during the entry process
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greywolf - addict
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Re: British Middles seeding
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: British Middles seeding
Great question. You just have to read the AP logs of our elite after the JK and British each year to see the size of the trains and the effects on the results. Quite how the selectors disentangle the results of our premier events to select runners would be interesting to know. Still, looking on the bright side, they may give assistance with relay selections!Homer wrote:I wonder whether we have got what we want with regard to seeding of start times?
I predict lots of trains.
- maprun
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Re: British Middles seeding
You just have to read the AP logs of our elite after the JK and British each year to see the size of the trains and the effects on the results.
And you just have to look at the WOC tracking to see the same thing. So elite selection is arguably the only thing these races are suitable for.
I'm controlling BMOC next year, at Stock Hill, so constructive* suggestions are welcome.
* it's too late to change date or area.
Last edited by graeme on Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: British Middles seeding
Stock Hill looks like a perfect area for BMOC.
So the constructive suggestion is just to do some really good courses*, and then get competitors to run them.
* really good = consistently technical, but without it being control picking. There is a longish leg in there somewhere and a couple of medium ones too.
So the constructive suggestion is just to do some really good courses*, and then get competitors to run them.
* really good = consistently technical, but without it being control picking. There is a longish leg in there somewhere and a couple of medium ones too.
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Re: British Middles seeding
How about alternating the seeded runners with slower runners, using the same two minute start intervals, and effectively extending the seeded runners intervals to four minutes. The elephant tracks will still broadly be the same for all of them.graeme wrote:I'm controlling BMOC next year, at Stock Hill, so constructive* suggestions are welcome.
I agree with Arnold, a fine area for middle, with some intricate areas in reduced visibility green.
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Re: British Middles seeding
maprun wrote:How about alternating the seeded runners with slower runners, using the same two minute start intervals, and effectively extending the seeded runners intervals to four minutes. The elephant tracks will still broadly be the same for all of them.graeme wrote:I'm controlling BMOC next year, at Stock Hill, so constructive* suggestions are welcome.
I agree with Arnold, a fine area for middle, with some intricate areas in reduced visibility green.
I like maprun's suggestion.
I agree with Arnold that Stock Hill will be great for this event (assuming the map will be updated by a decent mapper).
Another suggestion: make BOK members (esp Clive Hallett) non-comp due to familiarity with the area
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Homer - diehard
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Re: British Middles seeding
If you really want to discourage trains forming, why not reverse the order: 1st seed starts, then the 2nd seed, then the 3rd seed etc. Slower runners will, in general, be chasing after faster runners and hence less likely to catch them?
Interspersing with non-seeded runners can only help too.
Interspersing with non-seeded runners can only help too.
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Crex - white
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Re: British Middles seeding
In typical overgrown English terrain, sending the top seed off first is one way of guaranteeing he/she won't win.
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Re: British Middles seeding
really good = consistently technical, but without it being control picking. There is a longish leg in there somewhere and a couple of medium ones too.
To continue the discussion on planning middle distance, I agree with Arnold. A longish (500m+) leg, please. Courses in all disciplines of the sport should have a variety of leg lengths. I don't understand where this control-picking tendency came from. I don't recall seeing a WOC or World Cup middle like that.
Regarding 'trains', mixing 'weaker' runners with 'stronger' runners is one solution, or so I've read, as long as the 'weaker' runner isn't actually a strong runner who can't orienteer very well. Also how about one year someone tries butterfly/phi loops into the top four or five courses?
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Re: British Middles seeding
I'm feeling very agreed-with which is nice
I think the tendency for control picking middles in the UK comes from
1/ 90% of UK courses I've run, of all lengths, having too many controls - especially down south
2/ the middle philosophy being "consistently technical" which some interpret as "never touch a path"...
Personally, as a planner I find few things as satisfying as finding that Really Good Long Leg.
I think the tendency for control picking middles in the UK comes from
1/ 90% of UK courses I've run, of all lengths, having too many controls - especially down south
2/ the middle philosophy being "consistently technical" which some interpret as "never touch a path"...
Personally, as a planner I find few things as satisfying as finding that Really Good Long Leg.
- Arnold
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Re: British Middles seeding
Arnold wrote: really good = consistently technical, but without it being control picking. There is a longish leg in there somewhere and a couple of medium ones too.
That gets my vote - although on most areas you can still keep it in the forest with fewer legs.
Unfortunately it looks like this thread has come too late for this weekend's planners
Oh and don't hold it in September when the forests are full of bracken and brambles.
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: British Middles seeding
Yes well the Nopesport Approved Plan says that the Middle should be with the Nights in Feb / March, but whether that will actually happen...
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