The World Games
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Re: The World Games
Great second half from Ralph but did he visit control 20 ?, gps suggests he didn't.
- johnrobinson
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Re: The World Games
johnrobinson wrote:Great second half from Ralph but did he visit control 20 ?, gps suggests he didn't.
There are two 20s. Ralph's no 20 was the individual tree. Peter will have visited the other no 20 (the clearing) on the other gaffle.
GPS is not 100% reliable for deciding if a control has been visited anyway - particularly if there are buildings about.
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Re: The World Games
Thanks for that, I got confused by lines and numbers and thought there were 3 19's (thought it was odd as only two alternatives on other controls ).
A really good run by all the team, could have had a medal but the margins are very thin at that level.
A really good run by all the team, could have had a medal but the margins are very thin at that level.
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Re: The World Games
johnrobinson wrote:
Who was on second leg for NZ, they started with us but blazed through the field to lead into the run through and then?? something... (missed that leg need to see video )
Tim Robertson. He ran brilliantly then failed to go around the fence/marked route in the arena (He started to run back the way he came in and had to double back losing first place and about 20 seconds).
The start was an accident waiting to happen.
https://iofreflections.blog/2017/07/27/ ... call-this/
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Re: The World Games
yes saw it on relay, noticed that on the second leg the posts had been swathed with red tape. as they seemed to be just traffic barriers surprised they hadn't removed them for the race, but as the article said, focus on other things.
does anyone know if the fencing layout on the spectator run through was on the racemaps , it isn't on the gps version.
does anyone know if the fencing layout on the spectator run through was on the racemaps , it isn't on the gps version.
Last edited by johnrobinson on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The World Games
The iofreflections man has some valid points but he does need to cheer up a bit...
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Re: The World Games
Interesting that according to the results GBR seemed to be a bit less "mixed" than other teams (or has Murray taken advantage of recent IOF gender clarifications):
DEN: KLYSNER Cecilie Friberg, BOESEN Andreas Hougaard, BOBACH Soren, ALM Maja
SUI: ROOS Elena, HOWALD Florian, KYBURZ Matthias, HAUSWIRTH Sabine
RUS: GEMPERLE Natalia, TCVETKOV Dmitrii, KHRAMOV Andrey, VINOGRADOVA Galina
SWE: STRAND Lina, REGBORN Martin, LYSELL Jerker, JANSSON Helena
GBR: STRAIN Murray, HODKINSON Peter, STREET Ralph, CARTER-DAVIES Megan
...
No doubt all will be clear when I watch the live reply tonight
JK
DEN: KLYSNER Cecilie Friberg, BOESEN Andreas Hougaard, BOBACH Soren, ALM Maja
SUI: ROOS Elena, HOWALD Florian, KYBURZ Matthias, HAUSWIRTH Sabine
RUS: GEMPERLE Natalia, TCVETKOV Dmitrii, KHRAMOV Andrey, VINOGRADOVA Galina
SWE: STRAND Lina, REGBORN Martin, LYSELL Jerker, JANSSON Helena
GBR: STRAIN Murray, HODKINSON Peter, STREET Ralph, CARTER-DAVIES Megan
...
No doubt all will be clear when I watch the live reply tonight
JK
JK
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Re: The World Games
Just watched the mixed sprint video. Leaving aside the unfortunate bollard incident there seem to be quite a lot of dog leg type legs - or at least control placement encouraging collision. The camera work seems to be very much on the close side of interfering with runners. Hard to believe they got away with that without incident.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: The World Games
Very impressive choreography by the world's elite sprint orienteers, considering the cameraman was acting as a mobile human bollard at times! I hope the IOF are making notes, to combine orienteering with parkour which might catch the IOC's attention.andypat wrote:Just watched the mixed sprint video. Leaving aside the unfortunate bollard incident there seem to be quite a lot of dog leg type legs - or at least control placement encouraging collision. The camera work seems to be very much on the close side of interfering with runners. Hard to believe they got away with that without incident.
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Re: The World Games
The bollard incident with Isia Basset was not unfortunate, it was foreseeable, preventable, and the organisers fault.
The cameraman was so often in the way, it was ridiculous. At WOC forest relay the running camera man got a bit of a shouting at. Certainly, if I was there, the forest camera would have picked up some rather creative language.
As for dog-legs. I always get puzzled by people criticising dog-legs on sprint. If a control is in a location with 2 entries, then the only way of having route-choice in and out of the control would involve 50% of the options being dog-legs. Each leg is taken in isolation. It's not like a forest where you get a nice lead into the control by people leaving it. If you're running down an alley, someone coming back up it won't give you any particular advantage. The only real issue is managing head-on collisions, especially with rogue camera-men. I think this is just a relic of people having "dog-legs are bad" drilled into them before sprint/urban existed.
The cameraman was so often in the way, it was ridiculous. At WOC forest relay the running camera man got a bit of a shouting at. Certainly, if I was there, the forest camera would have picked up some rather creative language.
As for dog-legs. I always get puzzled by people criticising dog-legs on sprint. If a control is in a location with 2 entries, then the only way of having route-choice in and out of the control would involve 50% of the options being dog-legs. Each leg is taken in isolation. It's not like a forest where you get a nice lead into the control by people leaving it. If you're running down an alley, someone coming back up it won't give you any particular advantage. The only real issue is managing head-on collisions, especially with rogue camera-men. I think this is just a relic of people having "dog-legs are bad" drilled into them before sprint/urban existed.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: The World Games
It was more from the perspective of collision I was commenting on the dog leg issue. Based on what a saw on camera there were more controls than usual with a risk of collision due to the entry/ exit direction being similar. Of course maybe collisions is what IOF is looking for?
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Re: The World Games
On doglegs, I completely agree with mharky. Doglegs are obviously bad, but in sprint never bad enough to make it worth compromising the whole leg. A relic.
But note that it is possible to reduce the risk of collisions a lot by judicious control placement.
Avoiding trip-hazards in mass starts isn't a new problem - that's why you got march 200m up the hill at the Scottish Relays. And that's why everyone is responsible for paying close attention to their footing for some time at Jukola/Tio.
I think starts in sprint are a bit different, and often badly done, and there is a correct and logical process. When you start you *have* to look at the map, find the start triangle, the first control and plan a route. It takes time, for an elite runner about 10 sec seems to be enough, and if you stand still for 10sec you lost the race. So the start should be set up so that "run off in a random direction and hope" isn't the best plan.
There are two satisfactory ways to achieve this. The UK approach of 10sec, look at the map, go on the beep is OK, with the small drawback that you can see where others go. Also fine is the IOF approach of a 10-20 second run out to the start kite, with the small drawback that you need more space and you can't expect people to look for trip hazards.
Basset ran into the bollard after some 200m and after the first route choice decision had passed. Of course nobody wanted it to happen. But by that stage in the race the athletes can and must be paying attention: offloading the blame on unnamed organisers is neither fair not reasonable.
But note that it is possible to reduce the risk of collisions a lot by judicious control placement.
Avoiding trip-hazards in mass starts isn't a new problem - that's why you got march 200m up the hill at the Scottish Relays. And that's why everyone is responsible for paying close attention to their footing for some time at Jukola/Tio.
I think starts in sprint are a bit different, and often badly done, and there is a correct and logical process. When you start you *have* to look at the map, find the start triangle, the first control and plan a route. It takes time, for an elite runner about 10 sec seems to be enough, and if you stand still for 10sec you lost the race. So the start should be set up so that "run off in a random direction and hope" isn't the best plan.
There are two satisfactory ways to achieve this. The UK approach of 10sec, look at the map, go on the beep is OK, with the small drawback that you can see where others go. Also fine is the IOF approach of a 10-20 second run out to the start kite, with the small drawback that you need more space and you can't expect people to look for trip hazards.
Basset ran into the bollard after some 200m and after the first route choice decision had passed. Of course nobody wanted it to happen. But by that stage in the race the athletes can and must be paying attention: offloading the blame on unnamed organisers is neither fair not reasonable.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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Re: The World Games
mharky wrote:The cameraman was so often in the way, it was ridiculous. At WOC forest relay the running camera man got a bit of a shouting at. Certainly, if I was there, the forest camera would have picked up some rather creative language.
Although I dare say the forest cameramen are irritating to runners, I can't see there can be any real objection to them.
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Re: The World Games
A camera on a drone might have worked in the zoo, given a different perspective anyway, obviously not workable in a forest.
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Re: The World Games
johnrobinson wrote:obviously not workable in a forest.
Really? I thought the drone in the forest bits of this film really added to it.
https://www.facebook.com/ORingen/videos ... 245144907/
Harder to do live, yes but jukola have done it so it's possible. Needs the right kind of forest though...
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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