Should we not publish urban race course lengths as actual length rather than straight line (just like for sprint races)?
I always think it must be strange to a newcomer to read "course is 5km but expect to run 50% further" - well why not just say "course is 7.5km" then? Granted newcomers are not the main target audience but surely a big target audience for urban?
Plus if you say the Newcomers course is 8k that sounds a lot more impressive than 5k
Urban race course lengths
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Re: Urban race course lengths
The IOF recognises that straight line lengths are pretty meaningless so, unlike BOF, has had the rule that lengths must be as measured round impassable objects for a few years now.
Not sure about longer Urban races, but a few major recent UK Sprint races have defied BOF Rules and published optimal course lengths instead. The British Sprints at Aldershot was one example.
Doing so makes it much easier to estimate winning times and, where a range of courses is needed, it's much easier to keep to recommended course length ratios too.
Yes, it's more hassle for the planner. But software such as Purple Pen has a line bending feature which simplifies drawing (and measuring) optimal courses. Moreover, where a leg is common to several courses, the optimal route for that leg is remembered and may be saved and reused.
Not sure about longer Urban races, but a few major recent UK Sprint races have defied BOF Rules and published optimal course lengths instead. The British Sprints at Aldershot was one example.
Doing so makes it much easier to estimate winning times and, where a range of courses is needed, it's much easier to keep to recommended course length ratios too.
Yes, it's more hassle for the planner. But software such as Purple Pen has a line bending feature which simplifies drawing (and measuring) optimal courses. Moreover, where a leg is common to several courses, the optimal route for that leg is remembered and may be saved and reused.
- DJM
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Re: Urban race course lengths
The planner has to measure the optimal course length to design courses of the correct length anyway. Having done so, it is no extra hassle to publish those rather than the straight line distances.
It is also be more useful for future planners using an area if they can use the results to judge how fast the terrain is.
It is also be more useful for future planners using an area if they can use the results to judge how fast the terrain is.
- pete.owens
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Re: Urban race course lengths
It's a waste of time measuring course lengths. The important thing is the winning time, which the planner checks by test running the course. If the winning time is correct, the length is irrelevant. If it's wrong, the length is misleading. Don't waste time indoors, get out and run!
Course length of my next urbsn elite Sprint will be 4 km. No, I don't know when or where it is.
Course length of my next urbsn elite Sprint will be 4 km. No, I don't know when or where it is.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Urban race course lengths
graeme wrote:It's a waste of time measuring course lengths. The important thing is the winning time, which the planner checks by test running the course. If the winning time is correct, the length is irrelevant.
I disagree!
For someone who knows orienteering and knows their own skill/speed, winning time is fine. If a course has a winning time of 15mins I know it's going to take me 18 or 19.... But for newcomers winning time is less relevant, they would want to know approx distance.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
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Re: Urban race course lengths
I both agree and disagree.
It is not necessary to calculate actual distance in order to design the courses correctly. You can test run them, as Graeme points out. And you should test run them, or at least one of them.
On the other hand, as Andy and others suggest, the actual distance is a more useful measurement, especially for newcomers. And, if you use 2D re-run in the planning process, you will have the optimal or shortest distance calculations already.
It is not necessary to calculate actual distance in order to design the courses correctly. You can test run them, as Graeme points out. And you should test run them, or at least one of them.
On the other hand, as Andy and others suggest, the actual distance is a more useful measurement, especially for newcomers. And, if you use 2D re-run in the planning process, you will have the optimal or shortest distance calculations already.
- Parkino
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Re: Urban race course lengths
So, for British Sprint Championships, do you test run ALL the courses (umpteen of them), or do you test run a few and use ratios to set the rest?
- DJM
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Re: Urban race course lengths
DJM wrote:So, for British Sprint Championships, do you test run ALL the courses (umpteen of them), or do you test run a few and use ratios to set the rest?
For an important race, I would test run my own age class course in its entirety, and all the legs on the others. Then use your speed ratios.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Urban race course lengths
graeme wrote:For an important race, I would test run my own age class course in its entirety, and all the legs on the others. Then use your speed ratios.
There's no way I can hit my race pace in a test run, so anyone coming to the Interlopers SOUL this October can expect underplanned courses (or at least, too short - not necessarily the same thing), unless the planner and controller can come to a sensible compromise...
Planner: M. Strain
Controller: G. Ackland
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rocky - [nope] cartel
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Re: Urban race course lengths
Can you hit my race pace?
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Urban race course lengths
Arnold wrote:Should we not publish urban race course lengths as actual length rather than straight line (just like for sprint races)?
Yes!
Actual length is useful information for the novice and the ordinary joe. Running significantly further than expected can be dispiriting, cause injuries etc etc.
For elites and competitive age-class runners winning times might be of more interest - but they can cope with either convention. For everyone else I think actual course length is most useful.
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Crex - white
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Re: Urban race course lengths
I'd go with publishing the actual course length as well - but the most important thing is that it's crystal clear which one you're providing. (Giving the actual "best route" distance has the added benefit that you can see afterwards whether you took the route the planner thought was best.)
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